Iron staining, Sulfur smell, water options

Users who are viewing this thread

Mialynette2003

In the Trades
Messages
944
Reaction score
17
Points
18
Location
Ocala, Florida
I noticed that my system was set up in the order: pump->pressure tank->chlorine injector->contact tank, with the injector controlled by the pump switch - a common arrangement. However, this means there could be zero flow past the injector much of the time, when the pump is running but there's no demand in the house. I'm going to rearrange things so the order is: pump->injector-> contact tank->pressure tank to ensure the full flow from the pump is passing the injector. This order is recommended by several on-line vendors and the manufacturer of my pressure tank. For unrelated reasons, I'm going to use a flow switch instead of the pump switch to control the chlorine injector pump.
Why have chlorine go through the pressure tank? The chlorine will reduce the life of the P/T. To me, your set up now is good except for the lack of a flow switch. Add it to the outbound side of the retention tank and be done with it.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
I doubt the softener is allowing that, an iron test on the softened water would show if it is.
Iron test shows 0.0 in the house, but there sure is some there. The drainboard by the sink also shows a reddish tint after a week or so.

I think you are over thinking this. And you sure don't need an iron filter. BTW, if you wipe the ring off the toilet bowl, that is a lot less expense than buying equipment.
I always overthink things. Only now, I don't get paid for it :(. I've accumulated all the parts for an iron filter, so WTH. And there's no ring on the toilet bowls -- just the redish stain in the tank.


You don't need to install the injector ahead of the pressure tank and if you do that, and the injector blocks upyou can cause serious problems for a pump and, assuming the pressure switch is on the pressure tank and it is in the house, if a submersible pump, plumbing problems in the well or underground to the house.
I overthought that quite a bit. Everything is within 15' of the pump. I think I can rig an overpressure switch in the line to detect blockages, shut things down, and raise an alarm in the security system.

I have to ask, why is the "pump inlet" at 60' in a 200' well?
I guess you'd have to ask the well driller. I certainly didn't know any better back in '00, so I just went with what he did. It's a jet pump, but if/when it dies I'll consider switching to a submersible.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
Why have chlorine go through the pressure tank? To me, your set up now is good except for the lack of a flow switch. Add it to the outbound side of the retention tank and be done with it.
Mainly for the reasons mentioned earlier. As it is now, the injector usually runs with no flow in the pipe, and as water is drawn from the contact tank the accumulated slug of chlorine slowly drifts into the tank, and isn't well mixed. Also, a few years ago I thought the pressure tank had failed, and when I drained it, a bunch of really disgusting goop came out. I cleaned it up, checked that it was working just fine, and resolved to look into chlorinating before the pressure tank.

The only affordable flow switches I see typically have a turn-on in the 1GPM range, which I'm not comfortable with, given the flow rates and times for common uses in the house.

The chlorine will reduce the life of the P/T.
When I talked with the manufacturer of the pressure tank at the time of the incident mentioned above, they recommended chlorinating, and mixing well in the contact tank, before the pressure tank. They assured me that there would be no problem with the bladder, but maybe they just want to sell me another. Since right now I'm seven or eight years into their 5-year warranty, they probably will.
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Iron test shows 0.0 in the house, but there sure is some there. The drainboard by the sink also shows a reddish tint after a week or so. And there's no ring on the toilet bowls -- just the redish stain in the tank.
If it is pink/reddish, it is an airborne bacteria that gets into open water in a house, like pet water dishes etc.., not iron.

Everything is within 15' of the pump. I think I can rig an overpressure switch in the line to detect blockages, shut things down, and raise an alarm in the security system.

I guess you'd have to ask the well driller. I certainly didn't know any better back in '00, so I just went with what he did. It's a jet pump, but if/when it dies I'll consider switching to a submersible.
If it is a single line (shallow well) jet pump, they can't suck water over about 25'. If it's a two line (deep well) jet pump they have a jet body down in the well and are good for up to 150'+. Those measurements are at sea level. So now you have the 200- 60' = 140' plus whatever distance above the 60', from 60 up to at least 25', that you don't draw water down below that; of stagnant water, in FL.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
If it is pink/reddish, it is an airborne bacteria that gets into open water in a house, like pet water dishes etc.., not iron.
Not a hint of pink, more like orange. I'll get a sample to a microbiologist buddy and see if she can culture something disgusting.

If it is a single line (shallow well) jet pump, they can't suck water over about 25'. If it's a two line (deep well) jet pump they have a jet body down in the well and are good for up to 150'+. Those measurements are at sea level. So now you have the 200- 60' = 140' plus whatever distance above the 60', from 60 up to at least 25', that you don't draw water down below that; of stagnant water, in FL.
Excellent point -- definitely a deep well jet, 1" and 1 1/4" pipes. I thought the team that installed the well were a lazy bunch, so maybe they just decided after gluing up 60' of pipe that it was Miller Time and knocked off. I'll talk to another local well guy I have more confidence in and see what he says -- there may be some local conditions that dictated the 60', or maybe they didn't want to get too close to the bottom of the casing. It's all sand and clay in the cased area, but tan limerock below, according to the well completion report. It's obvious that they were unable to drive the casing into the rock at all, FWIW.
 

astraelraen

New Member
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
ID
I know it's been awhile and I see there have been some additional posts, just wanted to update.

I removed the anode from my water heater and replaced it with an aluminum rod. The old rod was approximately 2 years old and didn't appear to have anything wrong with it other than mineral/scale build up on it. I would assume if you have iron/sulfur bacteria the rod would end up being slimy? But maybe that's just a guess? Unfortunately that didn't seem to help the issue at all. The hot and cold still have a sulfur smell and it comes and goes just depending on the time of year it seems. Some days its hardly noticeable, other days it reeks.

After talking with my wife and determining that using a 10" carbon block filter eliminated the smell for a few months, we ended up ordering a Centaur Carbon Filter off the internet, I have yet to install it though. That's this weekends project.

I suppose the only downside to this with no chlorine is monitoring for bacteria buildup? I was thinking about plumbing in some sort of port on the water line to be able to add small amounts of chlorine before the carbon filter to be able to "disinfect" the carbon filter periodically, but I'm not sure how feasible that is.
 

astraelraen

New Member
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
ID
I would have gone with a backwashing carbon filter.

Sorry, my post was confusing. In the past we have used a carbon block and it eliminated the smell for a few months (I assume until the block "ran out")

I purchased a 1.5cf Centaur Carbon fleck 5600 filter.

The plan is to install it this weekend unless I chicken out... kinda wary of doing it on a Saturday since if I screw up we will be without water until a plumber can come.

Our house is 2 years old and I think we have PEX plumbing. I was reading about "sharkbite" type connectors that might work, if I can just cutt off the existing loop and connect that adapter then connect it to the Fleck bypass valve that should work. I'm a little hesitant to use those adapters though, since all the water in the house will be going through it.

IMG_20120826_145835.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mialynette2003

In the Trades
Messages
944
Reaction score
17
Points
18
Location
Ocala, Florida
I have used the sharkbite on pex before and they work great. Once you cut it, a very light sanding around the edge to deburr it will help seat the o ring. Let us know how it turned out.
 

astraelraen

New Member
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
ID
Pipe sizing is annoying. The online vendor I got my water filter from said that everything is measured internal diameter, but it seems to me looking at all these fittings that everything is actually measured using the outside diameter of the pipe.

Tubing that is labeled 1" is clearly 1" outside diameter. It seems to me that I have 1" outside diameter tubing and need 1" compression fittings to go over the outside of it. I was under the impression I needed 3/4" fittings since it seems like I have 3/4" inside diameter tubing.

I got confused by some of the fittings at Home Depot and they didn't have two of the ones I thought I needed, but now I'm not so sure. I'm going to take the bypass off the valve and bring it down to the store tomorrow or next week and test fit things. Unfortunately I don't have a spare piece of pipe to bring or I could rig it all up in the store to make sure it works. But I measured the pipe and it's clearly 1" on the outside.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
Here are the physical specs for PEX. If yours is clearly 1" OD, I don't know what it is. Sorry about the formatting, but the forum deletes extra spaces; don't know if there's a way around that, other than posting as an image:

PEX:
Nom OD Wall ID lb/ft
3/8" 0.500 0.070 0.350 .0450
1/2" 0.625 0.070 0.475 .0580
5/8" 0.750 0.083 0.574 .0838
3/4" 0.875 0.097 0.677 .1100
1" 1.125 0.125 0.863 .1706

I looked at several PEX sites, and the numbers don't agree precisely as one would expect, but they're close...
 
Last edited:

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Pipe maintains the ID, tubing maintains the OD.

Most residential water line material is schedule 40.

Polyethylene, steel, PVC water line is usually pipe and thereby sized by the ID and the OD floats based on the pressure rating which increases or decreases the wall thickness and OD. I.E. 3/4" has an ID of 3/4", etc..

Copper, most PEX, CPVC is tubing and it maintains the OD and the ID floats based on the pressure rating which increases or decreases the wall thickness and ID. I.E. 3/4" has an ID smaller than 3/4" and an OD of 7/8", 1/2" is 5/8" OD and ID is smaller than 1/2" etc..
 

astraelraen

New Member
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
ID
I assume the tubing in my picture above is PEX? It did not look quite like the PEX piping at the store, it appears more rigid to me than the stuff at the store. I see an identifying mark of PEX1006? on some of the piping but nothing else that makes any sense to me. It appears to be just over 1" outside diameter and the fittings appear to be in the range of .8" so it must be the 1" PEX if it is PEX tubing.

I was looking at the Fleck bypass valve and the opening looks ridiculously small when set to the service position.
IMG_20120909_085211.jpg
This seems like it would be a huge bottleneck to water flow?

Maybe next time I embark on a plumbing adventure I'll just hire a plumber! :)
 

Tom Sawyer

In the Trades
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
34
Points
48
Location
Maine
I'll weigh in on the PEX diameter thing. The OD of pex, cpvc and copper used for potable water is all withing ANSI standards for size and therefore Sharkbites will work on any one of them.
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
I would not make such a blanket statement. I have had very little exposure to different brands of PEX, but what I have seen of poly, the ID was consistent and the OD varied.
I don't know what you are calling "poly" but here in the US it refers to polyethylene (PE) pipe.

So the ID is maintained and the OD is whatever it is due to the pressure rating/wall thickness. Which is what I said before....

Again, PEX is normally tubing and the OD is maintained and the ID is whatever due to the pressure rating/wall thickness.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks