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Thread: Programming a Fleck 7000 and Sanitizing

  1. #31
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I've learned from answering your posts and PMs to me and my answering your never ending questions that you still disagree with me although I have gone into detail to explain 'things' to you.

    One more time.... your way misses the point that 35-45 seconds is not enough time to dissolve all of the 1/4 cup of IO in the disposable cartridge sump, so you got very little IO into the resin.

    And I'd think you didn't get much if any of the weak IO solution, and recall it is diluted by all the water in the resin tank, all the way down through the column of resin but, to do that you would have to run the water for much longer to get the IO into all the resin and that means you'd have some out into the plumbing. Which doesn't do the resin any good.

    Then when the regeneration starts, the backwash cycle (upflow remember, from the bottom of the resin up) uses up all the IO sending it out the drain line in just a few minutes.

    And you've missed the importance of the resin not having been backwashed before introducing the IO to the resin in the slow rinse/brine draw cycle allowing the IO to be in contact with the resin for a much longer period of time.

    Plus if you did get any IO out of the softener into the plumbing, it is in the plumbing past the softener where someone could use water without knowing there was IO in it until it was too late. And you may find that the sump still has some IO in the bottom of it because the water coming in the top simply goes across the top (about 1.5") and out the outlet, not down to the bottom of the sump where the IO is.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #32
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    My way is fool proof
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  3. #33
    DIY Senior Member F6Hawk's Avatar
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    LOL, no argument there, Tom. Pretty simple. Though I haven't used it long enough to know how much iron it will actually overcome, in the long run.

    I recognize your points, Gary, and can only say that when I did it, it only took those 30-45 seconds for ALL the SIO to leave the clear filter bowl, so that's all I ran it. No way the SIO got thru the softener into the house. Your method DOES guarantee that no SIO will ever get into the house, but it doesn't give much contact time. And while I don't have the years of experience that you do, I do know that there is a huge difference between 20-30 minutes of contact time vs. hours of contact time. It's like night and day when it comes to removing years' worth of iron accumulation.

    The SIO solution is just as strong using either method, though I can see your point of there being no way of knowing if the SIO will get to ALL the resin while it sits for 2-3 hours or so. But I suspect it will get to most of it. And when the regen cycle happens, yes, the SIO will be rinsed out, but it sat for hours in my case, as opposed to minutes in your case.

  4. #34
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I've also used IO to 'wash' parts. I've used it to remove iron from the inside of resin tanks from the resin level up that you couldn't shine a bright light through. You should do some of that and get back to us.

    Or, tell us why the capsule in the bag of salt way seems to work when it's a much smaller amount than my way and it's in the resin the same amount of time as my way.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #35
    Residential Design and Consultant knowhow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    If you were attempting to reclaim iron fouled resin instead of replacing it, you would stop the regeneration but you are simply cleaning your resin so it doesn't get iron fouled, so I didn't need to mention it.

    Using SIO in the salt tank has been "cleaning" your resin. And so far you've shown no need to have to sanitize the resin now, and doing so harms resin. You also don't have stop the regeneration to sanitize a softener. That's because of the length of time of the slow rinse/brine draw position.
    Thanks Gary,

    I forgot to mention that I have only been using/adding the SIO for the past year. My 1.0 cu ft softener has been operating since 2005 so it went six years before I started using SIO. That's why I thought I should do a more thorough cleaning. Because I don't know what the current state of the resin is, and whether it is fouled or not. I ended up doing the resin cleaning first, and will sanitize next. I used a cup of SIO and dissolved it in a gallon of softened water. I poured it directly into the brine well and did a manual regeneration.

    If I were concerned about ever having breached my softener's capacity, and wanted to make sure that the resin has been fully regenerated, would I need to do two, back to back regenerations? I assume that the salt dose setting (proper terminology?), which my Fleck 7000 is currently programmed for (thanks F6Hawk for calculating that for me), is more than adequate at 16.5 lbs per regeneration to fully restore the capacity of 1.0 cubic foot of resin. So, can I assume that doing two, back to back regenerations, will fully restore the capacity? If so, then my next maintenance procedure will be to sanitize the resin, since this has never been done, and because I have had pink/red staining at the toilet bowl water line. I would just feel better to know that it has been sanitized and that any bacteria in the resin has been removed. I will add one cup of unscented bleach to a gallon of conditioned water and pour it into the brine well? or brine tank? or both?, and then initiate a manual regeneration. I will then follow up immediately with a second manual regeneration, in order to fully rinse the bleached resin and to fully regenerate the resin's capacity. Would this be the correct/preferred method?

    Should I check the pH as stated here http://wqa.org/pdf/educ/webinars/RESIN_SANITIZING.pdf ? It says to check the effluent pH. I have a Hach pH test kit, where would I test for "effluent pH"? Pre or post water softener? FYI my raw water test, done 4/15/12, shows 6.6 for raw water and 7.0 post conditioning. I have a pH neutralizer installed prior to the softener. I am concerned that the raw water pH may have changed since April. I understand that the neutralizer "should" raise the pH level to one which would be safe to use with bleach, but would like to know for sure. Could I test the pH of the water coming into the brine tank by manually changing the valve to the brine fill cycle and capturing some water coming out of the brine line? I wish I had installed a 3/4" full port drain valve after my AN tank, this would have made for easy testing.

    Lastly, any recommendations out there on where to purchase a replacement BLFC, injector, and DLFC (do I need to change this also? where is it?) would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for all the responses and opinions. Have a good day.
    Last edited by knowhow; 08-11-2012 at 05:55 AM.

  6. #36
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knowhow View Post
    Thanks Gary,

    I forgot to mention that I have only been using/adding the SIO for the past year. My 1.0 cu ft softener has been operating since 2005 so it went six years before I started using SIO. That's why I thought I should do a more thorough cleaning. Because I don't know what the current state of the resin is, and whether it is fouled or not. I ended up doing the resin cleaning first, and will sanitize next. I used a cup of SIO and dissolved it in a gallon of softened water. I poured it directly into the brine well and did a manual regeneration.
    Unless you had iron getting through the softener your resin was just fine and you're worried about nothing. And 1 cup of SIO is at least twice the amount you need for a 1.0' softener.

    Quote Originally Posted by knowhow View Post
    If I were concerned about ever having breached my softener's capacity, and wanted to make sure that the resin has been fully regenerated, would I need to do two, back to back regenerations? I assume that the salt dose setting (proper terminology?), which my Fleck 7000 is currently programmed for (thanks F6Hawk for calculating that for me), is more than adequate at 16.5 lbs per regeneration to fully restore the capacity of 1.0 cubic foot of resin. So, can I assume that doing two, back to back regenerations, will fully restore the capacity?

    If so, then my next maintenance procedure will be to sanitize the resin, since this has never been done, and because I have had pink/red staining at the toilet bowl water line. I would just feel better to know that it has been sanitized and that any bacteria in the resin has been removed.

    I will add one cup of unscented bleach to a gallon of conditioned water and pour it into the brine well? or brine tank? or both?, and then initiate a manual regeneration. I will then follow up immediately with a second manual regeneration, in order to fully rinse the bleached resin and to fully regenerate the resin's capacity. Would this be the correct/preferred method?
    Yes you do two regenerations but... Hawk has you using more than 15 lbs/cuft and you're just wasting the excess.

    Yes, in the water in the salt tank, not into the salt but you should not sanitize unless you have some symptom that doing so will cure the cause of the problem but....

    Pink staining at the water line in pet water bowls, toilet bowls etc is caused by airborne bacteria, it isn't due to not sanitizing your softener. One regeneration with bleach is enough, you don't need to do a second one to get rid of bleach, it all went to drain as it was added in the slow rinse/brine draw position but then it was rinsed out in the Rinse position too.

    Quote Originally Posted by knowhow View Post
    Should I check the pH as stated here http://wqa.org/pdf/educ/webinars/RESIN_SANITIZING.pdf ?
    No, it's not needed to sanitize a softener. Plus you have an AN filter that has raised the pH.

    Quote Originally Posted by knowhow View Post
    Lastly, any recommendations out there on where to purchase a replacement BLFC, injector, and DLFC (do I need to change this also? where is it?) would be greatly appreciated.
    You can buy them from any dealer selling Fleck valves, local or online, that knows which ones your valve and softener needs.
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 08-11-2012 at 07:16 AM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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