Eco Soiree fill valve problem

[geoffinCT]

Hello,

I just bought/installed a Toto 1.28g 1-piece Eco Soiree yesterday which wasn't too bad except for drilling through tile (Even with a new diamond bit from Lowes). 1.28 instead of my old 1967 5.5 gal toilet is great!

It works well so far except I noticed when it fills the tank the water dribbles down from the top of the fill valve at 4 equidistant locations (like a shower) which doesn't seem right to me. It seems to have some sort of cover on top of the fill valve and a tank level adjustment. It fills to about an inch from the top of the tube and shuts off correctly. But the water level very slowly (hours) will drop low enough to cause the fill valve to hiss and refill. The flapper seems correct, there's no water seemingly leaking anywhere outside the toilet so I assume it's leaking down into the bowl. The hose is attached properly at the top of the tube, aiming down it. Any ideas or suggestions as what to try next? Does it need the brand new fill valve and flapper replaced?

Second question: My wife and I don't really care for the Toto seat on the Soiree. The comfort or the looks. What other elongated seats fit the Soiree's shape well and are comfortable?

Thanks

[Terry]

Dripping from the top of the fill valve during refill is normal.

If the level in the tank is dropping, it could either be the flapper, or the seal under the flush valve.
Two screws hold the flush valve in place. It can be pulled, the interior of the tank checked for smoothness and reinstalled.

Any elongated seat will fit the bowl of the Soiree. Comfort and looks? That's kind of a personal thing.
The seat on the Soiree is pretty flat.

[geoffinCT]

Okay, thanks.
It's good to know it's supposed to drip like that so I don't have to worry about the fill valve. My old 5.5gal toilets fill valves didn't drip from the top so I wasn't sure what was normal for Toto.
As far as the flapper or flush valve, I'll pull the flush valve and check the tank for smoothness since the toilet is brand new and it would be less likely the flapper is bad, I hope ;-) Unless you are aware of a problem with recent flappers.

I was aware that I could use any elongated seat, but I thought Toto's toilet bowls were slightly different size so that the new seat wouldn't necessarily be flush (pun intended) with the outside of the bowl so that's good news too. We'll give this seat more time first though to see if it grows on us. If so maybe I'll try the seat for the Guinevierre or Carlyle which I think looks nicer because it's not so squared off in the back.

Thanks for your help

[wjcandee]

Make sure that the chain isn't holding the flapper slightly open. Toto likes to have minimal slack in the chain, but if the trip lever gets bent a little one way or the other, it can be just enough to slightly-lift the flapper causing an almost unnoticeable leak. Easy enough to check: when you look at the connection between the flapper and the trip lever at rest, is there *any* slack in the chain? If so, that's not the problem and I wouldn't mess with it. If it's completely-tight, then give yourself one more link.

And it sounds like you have the refill hose clipped above the overflow riser, which is the other big cause of this kind of issue if it isn't.

Make sure no cracks in the overflow riser.

No in-tank bowl cleaner, I assume. That will screw your flapper up in 24 hours or less.

Is flapper seating straight down and appears to fit with no leaks? Is chain pulling flapper more or less straight up (i.e. not to the side)?

Terry (who is the real authority on this stuff) mentioned that the dripping from the fill valve is normal. I would just add that it does so as part of the feature which prevents siphoning of the tank water back into your domestic water system, so it's a good (and more recent than your 5gpf toilet) thing.

[geoffinCT]

All good thoughts, that's why i visit this forum!

The chain has just a little slack, but it definitely is aligned across the front of the toilet in front of the fill tube with the chain at a 60deg angle to the flapper so it does not pull it straight up but toward the front as it lifts which I thought was odd but assumed was normal in this case. Should it be bent with 2 channel locks so that it is centered if possible? The flapper does seem like it seats well with no apparent leaks (but it loses an inch in 3 hours so it probably is a slow leak). I wonder if you are right and it may be seating slightly to the side.

When I pull the flush valve I'll check for cracks, but I see none and hear no water dripping or leaking and the refill hose is clipped at the top above. I have no cleaners or anything in the toilet.
The non-siphoning fill valve makes sense and is welcome; I don't want to drink from the toilet ;-)

thanks for the help

[wjcandee]

My Drakes pull straight up; my Carlyle II pulls slightly rearward. If it is not pulling substantially to the side, I don't think it's an issue.

Does it settle to the same spot every time, or if you turn off the water does it eventually drain all the way out? That would suggest one theory over another.

Before you pull that flush valve, just run your fingers up and down that overflow riser and make sure it isn't cracked, particularly if the thing drains to the same spot every time. I just had a very nice guy the other day who had a leak in his toilet that he couldn't figure out, and it was a crack in the overflow riser, 1-1/4" from the top of the riser.

However, he gave me a great idea. In his case, he had put a dye tab in the tank, but he didn't see any dye in the bowl, even though he plainly had a leak and there was no water on the floor. So we were stumped, until he told me that the dye hadn't propagated throughout the tank, just settled down by the flapper so the crack high in the overflow riser didn't put dye in the bowl. From now on when I do a dye test, I am going to keep the dye low at first to try to isolate where in the tank the leak is. If no dye at first but dye when mixed, then we know the source is higher in the tank. If you have food coloring, let's try putting some down low in the tank if you can to see if indeed the leak is down there.

Also, you say that the water level is about an inch from the top of the overflow riser. Check inside your tank because it will say how high the water should be from the top of the overflow riser, and it's usually higher than you are suggesting. Use your tape measure to figure out where it should be. If you have the green fill valve with the white adjustment screw, turn clockwise to raise the water level, counterclockwise to lower.

[geoffinCT]

I'll trying making it pull up a bit straighter just in case and I'll run my fingers down the riser tube. The dye is a good idea to try to isolate it.

I haven't turned the water off to test how low it would go yet since I just installed it yesterday and it's been so nice having a new toilet, but I'll try it overnight.
I'll also check the correct water level to make sure it is right.

Thanks again

[wjcandee]

My pleasure! This detective work is always fun!

[jadnashua]

The bolt holes on toilet seats are pretty standard, and the general shape is too, but an aftermarket toilet seat may not match color or the exact profile as well as the factory seat...doesn't mean that it won't fit or be usable, though. Toto does make multiple seats, some have slightly different slope to the seat (i.e., are flatter). But, most people find the Toto seat is decent after a short acclimation period. It will NOT be comfortable if you are a percher...someone who doesn't plant their butt at the back of the seat, though.

[geoffinCT]

Good news!
I aligned the pull to be straighter with the flapper, felt the fill tube and it seemed fine, flushed it and then shut off the water overnight and the level was the same in the morning. It's actually filling to about 1/2" from the top and it's supposed to be set to 5/8" so close enough.

I then turned the water on and flushed it and it seems fine now so maybe the realignment helped it. I think maybe it was pulling the flapper a bit off center toward the front of the tank. I'll keep an eye on it though in case there is still a very slow leak.

Now I can enjoy my new Toto Sioree. It still amazes me how well it flushes with 1.28 gallons. I occasionally had to double flush with the old 5.5 gallon toilet because it had no hole at the bottom of the bowl to push waste out, just the rim holes.

Thanks everyone for the help, I appreciate it.

[wjcandee]

Thanks for the report! Glad it's all good now. Come back if it doesn't stay that way.