Shallow Well Help

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Rwbil

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1.25" fittings and foot valves can sometimes get stuck in old 2" wells and not want to come out... so 1" is normally used.

What is odd here is that even though the pipe is 1" they used an adapter and installed a 1.25" foot valve.

Anyway more important, I add a tee to my 60' 1" pipe and went all the way down. Well not quite all the way because of the tee I am about 1' from the bottom where I hit something solid before. I know I need to add an extender piece, but I hate to stop to do that, because currently I am trying to pump out the sand.

The T lets me connect between city water and the pump.

Here is my question, I am pumping and so far the water is black with sand. If this hits a rock bed and assuming this is a slow casing leak (probably a bad assumption) at some point shouldn't my water turn clear. If it just keeps pumping out black water with sand, what is your opinion.

Update:

The water is finally clearing up. But I think this well is driving me crazy. I tried to pull the pipe out and it got stuck after pulling up maybe 3'. This time when I pushed it back down it hit something solid prior to the pipe going all the way down (which it just did 20 minutes earlier). Maybe I am getting stuck on rocks or the casing. Will continue to play.

I turned off the pump and will try pumping again in 10 minutes or so to see is still clear or if it is again pumping out sand.
 
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Justwater

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Assuming you have the pipe at 60' while pumping, I would think it would clear up some if it's moving enough water. It's just gonna be short lived.

Yea I noticed that pic of ur foot valve.. must have been all someone had on them. It almost looks like a 1" foot valve with a 1.25 slip x 1" threaded male adapter then a 1.25x1 slip reducer in the adapter.. Kinda goofy.
 

Rwbil

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Assuming you have the pipe at 60' while pumping, I would think it would clear up some if it's moving enough water. It's just gonna be short lived.

Yea I noticed that pic of ur foot valve.. must have been all someone had on them. It almost looks like a 1" foot valve with a 1.25 slip x 1" threaded male adapter then a 1.25x1 slip reducer in the adapter.. Kinda goofy.

It finally cleared up. Turned off for awhile and then turned back on about 30 minutes later. For reason unknown to me I could get the pipe up and down this time. But when I turned it back on I was getting sand again, though the water was clear Sand color is white to grey color. If that tells you anything.

What concerns me the most is at first when turning the city water back on, the water came up instead of going down the casing. And that was with just a 30 minute rest break. Does this mean if I do not remove the 1" pipe, cut it to 30', put on the seal and glue on the foot valve and get it back down the hole within a short window, less than 30 minutes, enough sand will enter to clog me up?

I called around and there is a well company that sells a K-Packer Seal for sealing off the 1" drop pipe from the 2" well casing. It just fits on the bottom of the 1" pipe.

They recommended putting it down at the 30' mark. According to him leaks are general found above the water line in the 2" casing.

I guess I am a little slow, but one thing I still do not fully understand is how far the pump can pump. Let say the water table is 20'. So the way I understand it it does not matter if the 1" PVC pipe is at 30' or 60'. But the person at the well company stated that if I put a seal in and seal off the 2" casing then I need to only go down 30' or 40' max for my pump. Wouldn't the water rise to the water table of 20' inside the 1" PVC pipe. Why if I seal the 2" casing off does it make a difference.

Another Update:

Called another well company to price the seals. He sells a black K Packer or a Green Rock Seal. He says the green seal is to seal it at the rockbed. And says is it a better seal and would recommend it. But according to him if I have a rock well that they pound the casing into that rock to get a seal. And if that seal is gone (as opposed to a hole in the casing from above) then sand will fill the hole in the rock and eventually clog up the pump again. Seems like risk either way I go. But without knowing the true depth of the 2" casing it seems to risky to try and take the seal to the exact bottom.
 
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Justwater

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quit worrying about ur pump, the water level is shallow so it will work. Kpacker is better than the leathers. if i were u id clean well out best u can with the 60' of pipe, then pull it out and stick it back down with the seal at 40'.. faster u do it the better, they can plug back up fast sometimes. No foot valve. Slim chance u will pull this pipe out later so if there's a problem with the foot later it could be game over. Best to just have open pipe with seal in the well and use a brass in line check valve between the well and pump. hook it up, prime it and let it run. Will be very dirty at first then should begin to clear better and better.

this is the only thing u can do that might actually fix your problem.. anything else is a waste of time. listen good when installing the liner, sometimes u can hear water running in from the hole when u pass it with the seal.

Anothe thing to consider. I probably wouldn't go back with that double tap fitting. I wouldn't want to be twisting that pipe and seal in the well when putting it back on. If the sand starts to cave and get tight, it could break the pipe or ruin the lips on the seal. a 2x1 well seal would be better, or even a 2" PVC cap with a 1 3/8" hole drilled in it. Slide the pipe through it, hand tighten it on well pipe, and glue fittings to the pump. Sure it's not sealed but u have a hole anyway and have a seal at 40', so it doesn't matter.
 
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Rwbil

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quit worrying about ur pump, the water level is shallow so it will work. Kpacker is better than the leathers. if i were u id clean well out best u can with the 60' of pipe, then pull it out and stick it back down with the seal at 40'.. faster u do it the better, they can plug back up fast sometimes. No foot valve. Slim chance u will pull this pipe out later so if there's a problem with the foot later it could be game over. Best to just have open pipe with seal in the well and use a brass in line check valve between the well and pump. hook it up, prime it and let it run. Will be very dirty at first then should begin to clear better and better.

this is the only thing u can do that might actually fix your problem.. anything else is a waste of time. listen good when installing the liner, sometimes u can hear water running in from the hole when u pass it with the seal.

Anothe thing to consider. I probably wouldn't go back with that double tap fitting. I wouldn't want to be twisting that pipe and seal in the well when putting it back on. If the sand starts to cave and get tight, it could break the pipe or ruin the lips on the seal. a 2x1 well seal would be better, or even a 2" PVC cap with a 1 3/8" hole drilled in it. Slide the pipe through it, hand tighten it on well pipe, and glue fittings to the pump. Sure it's not sealed but u have a hole anyway and have a seal at 40', so it doesn't matter.

Still cleaning out the pipe, but this well is insane. One time I can only go down 60' and hit something solid. This morning could not get down 60' without hitting something and now after running the pump and cleaning I had to add another extension and I am well past 60' Maybe I am inside that hole in the rock. Who knows!

Do you recommend the black K-Packer or the Grey Rock Seal. The guy at the store said the rock seal is heavier and better and would seal better. According to him they both screw on the pipe, so no more foot valve. Have to go with check valve like you said. The K-Packer only comes in 1.25" to 2", but I guess I can just put an adapter on the 1" pipe at the bottom.
 
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Justwater

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i dont think i am familiar with a green or grey "rock seal".. but if it seems to be built better than the kpacker (which it easily could) i would use that. just look at them both and pick which looks like it will work best. the seals i have are green, not sure if that helps. they are much better/stronger than kpacker.
 

Rwbil

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i dont think i am familiar with a green or grey "rock seal".. but if it seems to be built better than the kpacker (which it easily could) i would use that. just look at them both and pick which looks like it will work best. the seals i have are green, not sure if that helps. they are much better/stronger than kpacker.

They sold a Green Rock Seal which was like 5" long with 3 separate heavy duty rubber seals. And they sold a black kpacker with 3 tiny rubber seals. Looking at the two there is no doubt that heavy Rock Seal would seal any thing. But I could barely push the first rubber seal through the 2" pipe that I took to the well supply store. I figured there was no way I could push that seal down the 2" pipe using a PVC pipe to push it. Maybe if I switched to galvanized pipe I could hammer it down. So I got the Kpacker.

Anyway I have another problem. I think I am ready to take dynamite to this well. After pumping out all the sand from the 2" pipe my 1" pipe is stuck. It feel like it is hitting something solid not sand. Maybe caught on a rock or the 2" casing. I tried blasting water down, pumping water up and twisting it to death. Any suggestion on how to get that pipe out. Maybe after it sits it will just mysteriously lift out. Who knows!

I did get some usefully info from the well store salesperson. He looked up wells they did in my area and the ones near me showed a water table of 9-10 feet and they dug 60-64 feet for most, though there were some 80 foot ones.
 

Justwater

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so you have not put the seal on yet? and you have 60ish feet of 1" stuck in the well? surely you didnt leave the pipe in there for a while with the pump off?? if there is nothing in there but 1" pvc, the only thing that would keep it from coming up is sand. your gonna have to keep trying to work it out with fingers crossed.

time is of the essence.. the longer you wait the harder it will be to get out.
 
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Rwbil

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so you have not put the seal on yet? and you have 60ish feet of 1" stuck in the well? surely you didnt leave the pipe in there for a while with the pump off?? if there is nothing in there but 1" pvc, the only thing that would keep it from coming up is sand. your gonna have to keep trying to work it out with fingers crossed.

time is of the essence.. the longer you wait the harder it will be to get out.

I was either pumping out or using city water to push water in except for short breaks. If it is sand it hits hard like it is hitting something solid. Plus I can move the pipe up and down some extent and can twist it, but can not get past a certain point. Unless the sand is pushing the pipe to one side and it is now hitting a fitting in the 2" pipe or something.

Also it is still able to pump and it is pumping out clear non sandy water. So if it is sand it must be stuck above the point of pumping.
 
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Rwbil

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I finally gave up on trying fixing my old well and decided to just jet in a new shallow well.

I will describe what I did and the mistakes I made so hopefully it will helpful to someone else. And I have question about what I experienced when jetting this well.

I drilled down using a 2" PVC pipe. Had 2 garden hoses attached. I serrated one end of the 2†pipe as can be seen in the photo and I made my own Drill Head as also shown in the photos.

One of my biggest problems was I could never tell when I was in the right water giving sand. I read somewhere to look at the ground and see the different colors. I only saw mud when looking on the ground. But it has been raining here making it even more difficult. I have been told by other the water table here is high like 10' below ground.

One of my biggest mistakes was my drill head kept blowing off. I finally figured out a needed a weep hole to relieve the pressure.

I started with a post hole digger and then started to dig with the 2†PVC pipe. The first 14’ was not so bad. When I dug to around 14' I think I hit the hard pan because it felt like I was going through rocks (if I had to do it again I would have made my drill bit out of galvanized steel). At about 17' the water stopped coming up around the 2" pipe and seemed to be slowing going down so I think that is the water table. But I do not see the water in the 2†pipe going down.

The drilling is rather easy from 17’ to about 24’.

I could not go further no matter what I did. And the water in the 2†pipe was not going down, though it seemed when the pipe was high it would go down a few inches. So I decided to see if the jet pump could pump out water at this point. So I hooked the 2" pipe to my jet pump. And then to my surprise the 2" PVC pipe dropped on its own, so I started to dig while pumping and I could down close to the 30' mark.

At that point I decided to reconnect my water head, but I could not go any further. In fact the pipe kept coming up. Nothing worse than losing ground!

Then I realized the 2" pipe had sand in it. I then connected my well head to a 3/4" pipe and ran it down the 2" pipe working out all the sand. Grey sand came out of the 2" pipe.

After that I could not dig any further.

Again at this point 30’ down, no water draining down that 2†PVC pipe.

At this point my 2†pipe was getting hard to move and I was really worried about it getting stuck.

So I decided to stop trying to dib and connected my 34' of 1.25" PVC pipe, which included a 4' well point down the 2" pipe and pulled up the 2" pipe (no easy feet; that pipe was getting stuck. But I got it up.)

So now there is about 30' of 1.25" PVC pipe with a 4' well screen in the hole.
And once again no water draining down that 1.25†pipe, so I was worried whether or not I could pump water.

I connected everything up and the water flow is not what I would hope for. Nothing compared to my old well, but I think adequate for my current needs. Maybe I need two wells and sometime in the future when I am bored I will drill that 2nd well.

I still have unanswered questions:

1) Why does water pump out, but I do not see any water going down the well?

2) How does one know when they have drilled far enough?

3) At 17' and the water around the pipe stopped coming up and started to go down was that the water table.

4) In case I need a second well, any suggestion on how to make this process easier?

.
 

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Justwater

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i assume u didnt do this "by the book" as far as the legalities. on top of all those fittings you have purchased and the time involved, the city of Jacksonville requires a 150$ permit for any new well in Duval county. Not to mention they would require you to legally abandon your old well by a licensed well contractor.. and being as a pipe is stuck in it, a driller would have to set a rig over it to drill out the pvc then grout it top to bottom. all this together would surely hurt the wallet. just fyi.
 
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