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Thread: What Went Wrong

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Well from the house is (from the point in the basement, where the 3" pipe goes in the wall) roughly 26' away.
    Well casing is 4".
    Cap is threaded on the top of that pipe. (thinking about this, I've mentioned that few times I did hear some hissing/air suction/ coming from under that cap when pump was running.
    As far as I can figure it out, that horizontal pipe is at least 4' below the grade (measurements + Michigan code). Outside on the top of it are perennials.
    If you look at that, the 3" poly pipe goes in to the basement wall perpendicular, but after exiting the wall from outside it must turn sharply to the right (looking from the basement) in order to meet the well pipe. (or it is my assumption?)
    Perhaps it curves gently over the span of 26'?

    Can you explain, how that 3" poly pipe with smaller pipe running inside it, is connected to that vertical 4" iron pipe outside? Logically it should be push-in connection, otherwise every time need for repair arise, the well must be digg out?
    Also, could that 3" poly pipe go with the angle down, from 4' at the basement wall to whatever depth of the well?
    Last edited by Zoomboy; 07-19-2012 at 06:02 PM.

  2. #17
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoomboy View Post
    Can you explain, how that 3" poly pipe with smaller pipe running inside it is connected to that vertical 4" iron pipe outside?
    No, it is a mystery. On a packer jet, you have a pipe inside another pipe whereas on a normal two pipe deep well, you have them running side by side. The space between the two pipes is pressurized and the inside pipe is suction. Somewhere, it either converts to a two pipe system or else it says as one pipe inside the other. I have not heard of a packer for 4 inch casing, so maybe it converts to two pipes underground or at the well casing.

    If you hear air sucking at the well cap, then there is not likely to be a packer jet but rather, a two pipe jet. Open the top of the well and look down to see if there is a two pipe pitless.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    LLigetfa, appreciate your continuos help. I'll do this tomorrow morning, need to buy big-a.. pipe wrench. Tried the "old school" punch&hammer, but cup didn't bulge.
    Thanks again.

  4. #19
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    After today I will be off-line for a while but hopefully someone will step up to the plate to help you.

    I wish you well.

  5. #20
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Thanks. Can not resist and tried to undo the cup with 3' pipe wrench. Need other one to counter the pipe rotation. It is obvious now that the 4" pipe is threaded at the bottom. When I turned the cap it rotated with the pipe. I turned it clockwise and it stopped after 1/2 turn, like it get screwed at the end.
    Tomorrow is other day.
    Have fan with your off-time.
    Last edited by Zoomboy; 07-20-2012 at 04:43 AM.

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Hokey, I did assembly everything together before the night and right now pump can't reach 20PSI, so it looks like that wiggling of that small pipe inside the 3" pipe did something.
    Hope some "pro" would have time for me tomorrow
    Whiskey & stogie time. Until "maniana"
    Last edited by Zoomboy; 07-20-2012 at 05:17 AM.

  7. #22
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    With great sadness I am abounding my project. The packer valve is inside that 4" iron pipe sticking from the ground outside. According to neighbors, that well was installed more than 30 years back. I called this morning well driller once again to ask for help with replacement of the packer jet and possibly of plugged screen and point. He looked at it and said that there is high chance of braking something during the process, which in turn will bring more money in the equation. He don't want to do this. He called it "throwing good money behind bad". Slowly, I tend to agree with him. Mrs. already did .
    One another thing he mentioned. Since everything outside the basement is so old, there is a chance that 1" pipe is squeezed almost flat from the force of pump suction and that could be the reason I am not getting volume of the water. Right now with 20PSI and 50 gal. tank I can still lift tank without much force.


    Could someone confirm/assure me/ that I am making right decision.
    Who likes to be labelled a wimp
    Last edited by Zoomboy; 07-20-2012 at 08:58 PM.

  8. #23
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Only getting 20 PSI from a pump like that is indicative of a plugged jet nozzle. Since the jet nozzle is in the packer in the well, you are going to have to pull it to find out. A well that you could put a submersible pump in would save you a lot of trouble.

  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Do they have smaller diameter (3") submersible well pumps which could be dropped in 4" well?
    Would I need to dig out the pipe around in order to get to the pitless adapter?

  10. #25
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Yes but 3" pumps are more expensive and don't last as long. What is called a standard 4" pump is only 3.5" OD and will fit in 4" casing, as long as the interior rust isn't too thick.

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Another bummer, it appears that my outside well pipe is 4" at the top part and reduces to 2" in the ground.

  12. #27
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Well you can either go to work on it and see how it goes, or move a few feet and start over.
    Rarely does a pump man get to give good news.

  13. #28
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    You know, it's threads like these that I wish amateurs would refrain from commenting on unless you know exactly what you're talking about.

    You obviously have what's known as "concentric piping". Since we don't have many basements here in S. Tx I have personally never seen one, but we have lots and lots of 2" wells that use packer jets. Basically instead of having two pipes run underground to the well ( one for drive pressure and one for suction ) they install one 2" pipe and one probably 1" pipe inside the 2". The pump sucks from the 1" and uses the annular space between the 2" and the 1" as the drive pressure. I hope you didn't ruin your pipe trying to pull out a "jet", the jet packer is down in the well probably 60'.

    I really don't know exactly how they work but I heard that there is a pitiless adapter for packer style wells. Also it is a dead giveaway that there is something plugged in the jet if it will only do 30 psi.

    I'm not really sure why but I heard that Michigan guys won't hardly work on 2" wells or packer style wells anymore. Good luck and I hope you get it going or at the least can put a submersible pump in but I'm betting that the well reduces down to 2" piping underground. Best case is that you have a 3" well and can put a 3" submersible in.

    Keep calling around and getting bids. What part of Michigan are you in?
    Last edited by Texas Wellman; 07-20-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  14. #29
    DIY Junior Member Zoomboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Wellman View Post
    You know, it's threads like these that I wish amateurs would refrain from commenting on unless you know exactly what you're talking about.
    Not sure what that is about?

    I was under impression that at this forum, "amateur" like me can get advise from "pro" like you.

    It appears that this it is my setup. 2" pipe which has 1" pipe inside. I am sure that I didn't brake that 1" pipe trying to pull it out. I was gentle with it. Jus little wiggle and gentle pull. It didn't separated, so I stopped.
    However, after assembling everything together pressure dropped from 30PSI to 20PSI. For some reason within few hours it drops almost to zero. Is it possible that water is going back to well? I didn't try to shot main valve and observe if pressure will drop again. Project for tonight
    I called another "well-man", and he confirmed (after checking the flow from running pump) that most likely my packer jet is at fault.
    He will replace all guts at the bottom of the well (packer jet, screen and foot valve) for $1400, but without any guarantee, which I understand. He said interesting thing, though. I changed pump from 1/2 HP to 3/4 HP, and according to him, that was wrong move, since packer jet installed in the line was "matched" with the old pump.
    I know, I am taking my chances with replacing parts instead install whole new well, but isn't whole life a gamble.
    I'll let you know how it turned after Tuesday.

    I am about 30 miles NW from Detroit, we do have plenty lakes around here so I am thinking that that lack of water is the least of my problems. Since I purchased brand new tank and 3/4 hp Myers pump I decided to go with replacing the rest of the "gizmos" .

    LLigetfa, valveman , Texas Wellman, thank you for your comments and advise, definitely I, and hopefully everyone reading this thread learned something.
    It is late night already, and who need water, time for "better liquid"
    Cheers.

  15. #30
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    Sorry, I was not meaning you (the OP ). I like helping people, that's why I'm here. I was referring to the wild goose chase you were sent on, which had good intentions but I just wonder why somebody would post up if they don't really know what they are talking about. Please forgive my rudeness.

    I wish you luck, and post up some pictures of the repair etc. Also, FYI, although Myers was once thought a top brand they have somewhat been knocked down by mergers and buy-outs and from what I have seen are a lesser pump than they used to be. At least around here they are. Your jet can still be matched up to the pump, you just have to change the venturi and diffuser. It will probably work even if you leave them alone.
    Last edited by Texas Wellman; 07-20-2012 at 09:55 PM.

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