BDriven, I think you have realized that there are a couple of individuals here who are more interested in providing you help. You clearly want to solve a problem and are looking for details. I would would still in interested in understanding your water test results. I believe you understand where a venturi can be placed and where it will not work.
Iron Remover/Water Softener redesign
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Tom Sawyer
In the Trades
Apparently there are only a few of us that have a sense of humor LOL Dole....bananas
(quote Slusser); You size a venturi based on gpm, you don't size a pump based on a venturi, you size the pump and the plumbing based on the TDH (total dynamic head), pressure required/desired and the max gpm of the peak demand flow rate required for the building.
BTW, a venturi works by increasing the velocity of the fluid going through it, which in the venturi decreases pressure of the fluid flowing through it. That causes a vacuum if you add a hole to the outside of the venturi in the right position and the vacuum can draw in a fluid or a gas, in this case air. And a venturi can be added to any water line anywhere you want to add one.
This is correct in every way. However, I have seen many cases where improperly sized venturi's were installed because the installer incorrectly "guessed" the size of the pump.
(quote Slusser); You size a venturi based on gpm, you don't size a pump based on a venturi, you size the pump and the plumbing based on the TDH (total dynamic head), pressure required/desired and the max gpm of the peak demand flow rate required for the building.
BTW, a venturi works by increasing the velocity of the fluid going through it, which in the venturi decreases pressure of the fluid flowing through it. That causes a vacuum if you add a hole to the outside of the venturi in the right position and the vacuum can draw in a fluid or a gas, in this case air. And a venturi can be added to any water line anywhere you want to add one.
This is correct in every way. However, I have seen many cases where improperly sized venturi's were installed because the installer incorrectly "guessed" the size of the pump.
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Gary Slusser
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Yep, like banana boy using the hp of the pump with no regard to the gpm the specific pump puts out. At least our whinny Kinetico salesman Andy doesn't get into things that deep, well unless he has comprehensive water test results. But even then I'm not sure he could, he's a bit shallow when it comes to mechanical things.
BDrivenByDemons
Member
So I'm just going to get another analysis done and post the results here.
I'm liking the look of my second diagram though. That mixing tank is set to purge at anything over 16" of air in the top. With that volume of air I think I'll be ok with minimal short cycling during backwash.
For those arguing about the GPM... The pump delivers 21.429GPM @ steady 50PSI. When the well was first installed I measured it by going wide open at the service valve with no other plumbing hooked up. I let the pump come on and it held 50PSI without cycling (my cut off/on is 60/40) then I filled a 5gal bucket in 14 seconds.
I'm liking the look of my second diagram though. That mixing tank is set to purge at anything over 16" of air in the top. With that volume of air I think I'll be ok with minimal short cycling during backwash.
For those arguing about the GPM... The pump delivers 21.429GPM @ steady 50PSI. When the well was first installed I measured it by going wide open at the service valve with no other plumbing hooked up. I let the pump come on and it held 50PSI without cycling (my cut off/on is 60/40) then I filled a 5gal bucket in 14 seconds.
Mialynette2003
In the Trades
I think asking for the water results is a sign of a good services tech which you would know nothing about. When you feel defeated, you resort to name calling in the same way 6 year olds do. So what kind of name calling do you have for me?
Thanks. Recommending any water treatment plan without knowing actual water quality test results should be avoided unless on a theoretical or academic basis. But you are attempting to address your specific water issues.
Gary Slusser
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Your test results would be used to setup the control valves, but have nothing to do with the the order or type of equipment you already have in place, as long as you get rid of the IRB before the equipment. If you do that you will also get rid of the iron and everything else that can be oxidized like H2S and manganese and all other types of bacteria.
Rust buildup in a pressure tank does not harm the tank and is something that should be a scheduled maintenance item. All you have to do is drain the tank and then flush it out. That usually doesn't take more than 15-20 minutes.
Your pump should be off for at least 60 seconds between starts. If not it short cycles and that burns up motors and spins the electric meter. You control that with the size of the pressure tank as to its draw down gallon capacity at your 40/60 pressure switch setting.
What size pressure tank do you have?
BDrivenByDemons
Member
Not sure the actual size of the tank but it's labeled as 12.4 gal drawdown @ 40-60PSI. The Model # is SR48-14S-01
ANybody know a good mail-in water testing place??? I called a few labs around here and they want $100 jsut for iron/hardness/TDS. That seems pretty high to me.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
http://watertestamerica.com/
I dont endorse any water testing company, but I have not had any complaints on these guys. You should get a serious water test done regularly if you are on a well. (regularly meaning not less than annually). $100 is cheap insurance.
I dont endorse any water testing company, but I have not had any complaints on these guys. You should get a serious water test done regularly if you are on a well. (regularly meaning not less than annually). $100 is cheap insurance.
BDrivenByDemons
Member
Well damn, I've been reading and reading and reading and found this.
https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?41360-Location-of-CSV-and-Aerator-on-Iron-Remover
I'm starting to think I should bite the bullet and buy a CSV and scratch the bladder completely. The precip tank would act as my hydro-pneumatic pressure tank and the reduced drawdown wouldn't be a problem with the CSV. EXCEPT for the damn venturi. Same as the other thread, how do I get it to pull air on minimal GPM??? It's one of those simple problems that's hard to solve
https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?41360-Location-of-CSV-and-Aerator-on-Iron-Remover
I'm starting to think I should bite the bullet and buy a CSV and scratch the bladder completely. The precip tank would act as my hydro-pneumatic pressure tank and the reduced drawdown wouldn't be a problem with the CSV. EXCEPT for the damn venturi. Same as the other thread, how do I get it to pull air on minimal GPM??? It's one of those simple problems that's hard to solve
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
http://purifiner.com/public3/downloads/Literature/U1020-02Injector.pdf
The air injector does hae a minimum flow requirement to create a low enough of a pressure drop to create adequate suction. The link is to the spec sheet for the injectors by Clack.
The air injector does hae a minimum flow requirement to create a low enough of a pressure drop to create adequate suction. The link is to the spec sheet for the injectors by Clack.
Gary Slusser
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12 GPM draw down means the tank is way too small for the pump.
You need a dry/erosion pellet chlorine feeder and to reuse your present filter if large enough to put Centaur carbon in it to remove the oxidation products and the chlorine.
Call the number below and tell them I sent you.
Automated Pure Water, Inc.
4350 5th Street SW
Vero Beach, FL 32968
Phone: (772) 567-2488
That gets rid of the air injection and its associated problems, plus the H2S etc. and the IRB and any other bacteria and the iron and any manganese.
Gary Slusser
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1.5 gpm flow and 30 psi is all that is required.
The installation in the picture is how it would be used if there was no air mixing/retention tank before the filter.
The installation in the picture is how it would be used if there was no air mixing/retention tank before the filter.
BDrivenByDemons
Member
So this just drops pellets of chlorine down the well - oxidizing the iron - then the iron remover will filter that out plus remove the chlorine by adding the carbon filtration to it? My iron filter is pretty big and I seem to remember it only filling about 1/3rd full with the filter media so I'm sure I could add the carbon no problem. It's gotta be triple the size of my softener. Now my well guy yelled at me and told me not to add bleach/pellets to the well very often cause it causes the iron to precipitate to the bottom of the well and clog it up. He caught me cause I had to have him extend my well pipe a little when I did the final grade on my house and he saw the few pellets I dropped down there when the well was new. Would it be better to inject it somehow after the pump/well???
Edit: I found a "Model 400 Chemical feeder" at that companies website that looks like it would do the trick. Would something like that work???
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Mialynette2003
In the Trades
I don't recommend adding chlorine into the well. Use a chlorine injection pump on the water line before the pressure tank or install a flow switch along with a retention tank to mix the chlorine.
Tom Sawyer
In the Trades
I view chlorine treatment at the well as a absolute last ditch effort for the very reason your well guy told you. Yes, you can add chlorine though to the water after the pump either by pellets which Gary likes or a solution injector which also work very well. Both will require regular and careful maintenance.
BDrivenByDemons
Member
Routine maintenance is my middle name. That doesn't scare me. A unit that works well is what I want. Any suggestions???
Mialynette2003
In the Trades
I've sold and/or serviced the pellet chlorinator, Pulsafeeder (Blue & White), Stenner and LMI. I have found the LMI to be the one that is more dependable.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
I prefer the injection pumps over the pellets. A simple injection system from these guys works great, is simple, and very reliable. It is also highly accurate. Chemilizer HN55 with a 128-1 ratio is the one many of our customers use. http://www.qcsupply.com/catalogsear...Water+Control+Products&utm_content=Chemilizer
BDrivenByDemons
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