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Thread: New system setup, iron softener with KDF

  1. #31
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    LOL, yup, it is extremely expensive. That is why I never argue resin first or last, it is like arguing sports, rarely does anybody change their mind.
    Due to the expense I think protecting the Centaur is more important than protecting the much less expensive resin.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Some guys swear the water tastes better if you put the GAC after the resin and since the resin is cleaned with the salt, it should go first, others argue the need to protect the resin.
    It sounds to me that those guys are not end user consumers, that they selling carbon etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    I find GAC to be highly resilient, and since it is typically on a scheduled changeout, I prefer to let it take the first hit and damage and to change it on a regular schedule.
    That's not true of DIYers but is of dealers that want a steady income and convince their uninformed residential customers it's needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    If you are chlorinating, then I would definetly recommend GAC first. Even my own softener system has the KDF and GAC after the resin. I used a 10% crosslink resin to handle the municipal water supplies chlorine. My system has the GAC after the resin due to design limitations. This may change in the future when I redesign a new system for my house.
    You sure like to talk about yourself and your nonstandard "research" equipment and way of installing it but that doesn't help the OP.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #32
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Vacation is over
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  3. #33
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagKarl View Post
    Ok, can you guys give me your experience with catalytic carbon and/or Filox media life? Is either better from a pressure drop standpoint? I can see a change in flow with the softener already. How often should carbon be backwashed?
    If you notice a flow reduction with just the softener, the softener is too small or there is something wrong with the plumbing or valving. Or ya just wanna power wash yer butt...

    Your best solution to get rid of the iron is to use the softener; add 4 gpg hardness per each 1 ppm of iron to your total hardness. As to an odor, you should make sure what it is, naturally occurring H2S or a very similar odor like that caused by IRB, Coliform (in some cases) etc. etc. and if it requires disinfection, that treats the iron, odor and kills the bacteria.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #34
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Vacation is over
    No kidding, figured as much. I have read, and reread my post, still trying to figure out where the contreversy can be found.

  5. #35
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Apparently you were not clear enough in your apathy over where to install the carbon filter

    Hard to say. I think Gary is trying to either stick up for the customer or once more, bash filtration dealers, installers, plumbers and pretty much everyone involved in the industry LOL.

    Thought you outlined the situation pretty clearly, giving the OP the pro's and con's and adding a little more for him to consider. I was not aware that it would turn into a dealers ripping off customers thread. Like I said, every situation is different and depending on the circumstances it may sometimes be better to put the carbon filter before and sometimes after. As for selling GAC and other things well, that's the American capitalist way isn't it?

    For close to 40 years now I have been in business. Selling and service is what we do but in all that time I can't recall ever once trying to sell a customer something with the intent of ripping them off. We do the best we can to satisfy the customers needs. I am sure there are a few unscrupulous people out there that run their business that way (like the guys selling magnetic/radio wave/ancient alien technology water filters) but most of us do our best to keep people happy and hopefully they will recommend us to their friends.
    Last edited by Tom Sawyer; 07-25-2012 at 09:27 AM.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  6. #36
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I guess I should clarify the term "regularly scheduled". This means it is not an ignored item. Resin can be "ignored" for many years in non iron, low chlorine installations. Carbon should be scheduled for a regular changeout depending on the installation parameters. In commercial applications monthly to annual changeouts are common, residential applications with chlorine injection, 2-5 years is not unusual. I would not recommend going beyond 5 years. I am trying to figure out how every 5 years is unfair, improper, or in any way contreversial. And in reference to my own equipment, the point was simple, I recommend GAC first, but in my own application, I have it last. The point was to show that an argument either way is going to end up with a 20 page thread... so either way is neither right nor wrong, except in specific applcations and that should be addressed when they occur. How is it that in agreeing with someone, I am wrong? LOL

  7. #37
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Magkarl, GAC is not catalytic carbon and it is much less expensive than Centaur carbon.

    You would use either until you started getting odor through it because no one can tell you how long any carbon would last you.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #38
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    I will do some more reading about the two carbon types. I was under the impression that regular GAC was not as effective and is degraded by H2S. I do not intend to chlorinate unless something changes down the road and my well requires it.

    I had a thought yesterday on the pressure drop. When I had my water off to install bypass T's and valves, I swapped out my sediment filter element. What came out was pleated, what I had on hand was wrapped poly. I looked up those filter specs online, and the new element has a max flow of 10gpm vs 25gpm on the pleated. I ordered a new element and that should take care of it.

  9. #39
    Water Filtration Engineer B.'s Avatar
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    Default You can use KDF with a softener!

    My company has developed a way to use KDF with softeners and carbons in backwashing tanks or non backwashing tanks. Check it out @ www.cuzn.com the WHCC-35 unit shows the KDF CUBES and carbon mix. Our medias are in a reticulated form to allow the KDF to remain on top of te resin or carbon even i backwashing situations. We also use a pure powdered form of KDF so it is lighter and more effective because of the smaller particle size. I just came accrosed this post and thought you might find this interesting. If you have any questions on the media or refill needs please feel free to contact me. email sales@cuzn.com and say Bob sent you.




    Quote Originally Posted by MagKarl View Post
    I will do some more reading about the two carbon types. I was under the impression that regular GAC was not as effective and is degraded by H2S. I do not intend to chlorinate unless something changes down the road and my well requires it.

    I had a thought yesterday on the pressure drop. When I had my water off to install bypass T's and valves, I swapped out my sediment filter element. What came out was pleated, what I had on hand was wrapped poly. I looked up those filter specs online, and the new element has a max flow of 10gpm vs 25gpm on the pleated. I ordered a new element and that should take care of it.

  10. #40
    DIY Member ByteMe's Avatar
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    I would really like some more information on these KDF CUBES.

  11. #41
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    We sell a lot of the KDF foam media by CUZN. It is very effective if it is applied correctly. It is not cheap, but then again, proper water treatment methods rarely are. We have tested it extensively and have found that it has a great future in the water treatment market. ByteMe, feel free to drop me a PM if you want more details, I dont like to use these boards for sales pitches.

  12. #42
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Where would that go if you have/need a water softener, with 4PPM of iron i can only see this getting clog
    pretty quickly??????

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