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Thread: New system setup, iron softener with KDF

  1. #16
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    Can anyone recommend an ORP probe and/or a place to buy Pot Perm? I only found one place online for Pot Perm yet and they had different forms, and the link only specifies mass/volume, not concentration. Plus they don't sell retail to DIYers.

  2. #17
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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  3. #18
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    If I buy liquid, does it come in different concentrations or is it all the same? The link you provided a few posts ago has a dry crystal recipe for the test. I found one on another message board that said 1 ounce Pot Perm to 16 ounces of water, then put 2 drops of that in a quart of water and watch the color. If it stays pink that's good, and no extra oxidizer is needed. Do you have a recipe/procedure recommendation that you would trust other than that?

  4. #19
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Use the test procedure recommended in th link I sent you. buy the Pot perm type in the link I sent you. Pot perm is an oxidizing agent and is shipped in the solid form. Let us know what your results are.

  5. #20
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    Dittohead, I apologize, I incorrectly assumed that since the Pot Perm was in a plastic jug that it was a liquid form.

    I finished the plumbing yesterday and installed the softener WITHOUT the KDF. I have made arrangements to return the KDF and will add a separate iron filter once I've done more homework. With only the softener running it made a big improvement in the water quality. H2S is still lingering, but the iron staining should at least be under control.

  6. #21
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    H2S in small amounts is nasty, but typically poses no real health problems. We are extremely sensitive to even the smallest trace amounts. You could try a catalytic type of carbon to remove the H2s, not the best solution, but it is cheap and it usually works and requires ver little maintenance.

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    With 1 ppm of iron, would you suggest he install the Centaur before or after the softener?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #23
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Good question. As you all know, I never recommend treating iron problems with a softener but, at only 1ppm it does not make a lot of sense to install a separate filter either so I would let the softener deal with the iron before it hits the carbon filter.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  9. #24
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    I was thinking an iron filter would take care of the H2S and lighten the small but extra iron load that the softener sees.

    I'm certainly open to other options such as carbon. It looks like you need a very large carbon tank to get good service flow and price similar to an iron filter.

  10. #25
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    It's only 1ppm, let the softener take care of it. less maintenance on the carbon filter. You will want to iron-out the softener occasionally though.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  11. #26
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    The service flow of Carbon is very low but... depending on what you are trying to do, you can exceed the service flow. The service flow is rated for near complete reduction of many other problems other than H2S and Chlorine. Organics, THM, VOC's, etc,. If your primary concern is H2s reduction and/or chlorine removal, you can exceed the service flow with little problem. Otherwise, every small residential carbon system installed would have to be a 5 cubic foot unit to meet a 15 GPM service flow of a regular sized house.

    Regarding carbon before or after the softener... there has always been a good debate on the proper way. In practice, I have found little difference other than I prefer to use the GAC as a sacrificial media to protect the resin. Carbon has a higher backwash rate and any precipitated iron and other sediment or debris is easily removed from the GAC bed during backwash. If someone does it the other way, I would not argue it. By putting the Carbon first, you could more easily add chlorine injection if it was found to be necessary in the future.
    Last edited by ditttohead; 07-24-2012 at 10:00 AM.

  12. #27
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Centaur carbon is not inexpensive, it is quite expensive so I wouldn't want to sacrifice much of it.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #28
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    LOL, yup, it is extremely expensive. That is why I never argue resin first or last, it is like arguing sports, rarely does anybody change their mind.

    Some guys swear the water tastes better if you put the GAC after the resin and since the resin is cleaned with the salt, it should go first, others argue the need to protect the resin. I find GAC to be highly resilient, and since it is typically on a scheduled changeout, I prefer to let it take the first hit and damage and to change it on a regular schedule. If you are chlorinating, then I would definetly recommend GAC first. Even my own softener system has the KDF and GAC after the resin. I used a 10% crosslink resin to handle the municipal water supplies chlorine. My system has the GAC after the resin due to design limitations. This may change in the future when I redesign a new system for my house.

  14. #29
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    If the iron goes past 3ppm though I am going to put the GAC first. I don't like to get too rigid about these things. Sometimes it makes more sense to go with one way over the other.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  15. #30
    DIY Member MagKarl's Avatar
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    Ok, can you guys give me your experience with catalytic carbon and/or Filox media life? Is either better from a pressure drop standpoint? I can see a change in flow with the softener already. How often should carbon be backwashed?

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