I am NOT wrong, my facts are rock solid.
First my friend I am not belittling you or your opinion in any way. I want you to know and understand that and also that I’m not trying to get you to change your methods. All I am doing is pointing out that you are simply wrong in your train of thought.
Example. An electrician prefers to wire room lights on a separate circuit from the receptacles, to avoid losing the light if a receptacle breaker trips. And you argue back, but what about a general power outage? Then you are in the dark.
Don’t forget the other part of my argument, how many times have you been left in the dark when a breaker tripped? I bet it has been more times from a power failure. If the breakers keep tripping then something is wrong and needs addressing.
Next you will want to tell me that proper solid wire, well twisted together with a linesman's pliers, trimmed well, and with the correct size nut twisted on with the same pliers, is exactly as good as the stab-nuts, because the UL says we can use them?
Why do you do all that twisting with pliers? The installation instruction on the container the wire nuts come in says, no pretwisting required. I don’t know very many, other than you and me that twist the wires. Most trim them even and install the nut. This is called the method of installation.
The matter of twisting wire together and securing it properly with wire nuts is a matter of understanding the purpose of the method and the stresses on the wire joint being made.
It is a matter of choice not requirement. When I install receptacles I use pig tails with the continuity of the circuit not relying on the device. This is a matter of choice in my installation methods and yes I do this with stab-loc devices as well as wire binding screws. This leaves each device carrying only the current imposed on it instead of the current of the whole circuit. I suppose I could get on a soap box and preach how much my installation methods are far superior to others but this would be an untrue statement. It would only be my opinion not fact.
I doubt that an inferior grade wire nut has been on the market in a decade or two. At least, I have not had any offered to me.
Now we are getting somewhere in this discussion. It is not a matter of an inferior device but a matter of the device being installed in an inferior manner. We (you and me) install the wire nut by first twisting the conductors before installing them but this is not a requirement according to the installation instructions. Someone following the instructions and simply trim the ends evenly and then install the nut does not make the wire nut inferior but the method of their installation is what causes the failure. This is true with the stab-loc receptacles.
Receptacles, on the other hand, come in any number of grades. Backstabs are the LOWEST. They will tolerate the least abuse, they will fail more quickly than higher grade products.
Every consumer product made comes in different grades even the cars we drive. It is one’s ability to pay for the higher grades of product that drives their choice of purchase.
I find it extremely hard to imagine that any electrician with more than a few months on the job cannot correctly strip the wire, press it in the hole, and screw the blessed thing into the box. While I can readily imagine that same electrician not appreciating the fine points of twisting wire together and running a nut on it.
During my final years in the electrical trade I no longer bid new work. The extent of my work in the field today is limited to jobs that will allow me to take my time in getting around. I suffer with Psoriatic Arthritis and move very slowly. This means that the bulk of my work in the field is following around behind other electricians doing repair work. Just like you I find some pretty scary thing lurking in electrical systems. The number one failure I find is wire nuts. Yes those electricians that do not have enough grip to tighten the nut enough to keep the arcing from happening and causing a failure in a few years.
It has been my experience that there are at least 100 failures of loose wire nuts or loose screws for every one failure of a stab-loc. I am finding the same ratio when aluminum conductors were used also. And yes I keep records.
And I CERTAINLY do not claim to be a master of all matters electrical. Not even remotely. I just manage. I am confident of my opinion of back stabs and those stab nuts. Don't like them, don't trust them, do not recommend their use.
I can accept this statement. It is you opinion and you don’t trust them. What I have a problem with is when someone says they are inferior. This leaves the untrained to think that they are not safe when this is not true. The stab-loc is tested by a NRTL with the very same technique as any other receptacle.
I agree that the installation process will cause a wire nut to fail should it be done incorrectly. I also agree that the installation process will cause a stab-loc to fail if done incorrectly and this is true with any installation process including the screw over a bent wire which I have found several of in my life.
In post 8, 9, and 10 one could ascertain that it was the back stab and the back stab alone that caused the problem of the original post. A well-seasoned electrician would be looking at the evidence with a little different outlook. What caused the failure was the wall shaker overloading the circuit to the point of failure.
It doesn’t matter if the failure was at a stab-loc, wire nut, terminal, screw, or whatever; the problem was an overloaded circuit.
I suppose that if we are going to start looking at the approved method of stab-loc devices being an inferior method of installation we should look at things such as mobile and manufactured homes as being an inferior dwelling unit. The devices in these installations don’t even have the stab-loc or wire binding screws. They have pressure blades that pierce the insulation of the cable. Small blades cut through the insulation to make contact with the conductor. See link below.
I suppose that when someone comes and asks for advice on repairing a circuit in one of these dwellings we should advise them to sell the place and buy a stick built home. Being that 2x4s can be damaged in high winds I recommend that you have your new home build from formed concrete walls.
I have no problem with someone saying that in their opinion they don’t trust one method over another method but I do have a problem when someone has a problem and the first words out of someone’s mouth are about one particular method.
If one wanted to get real technical about any installation we could start talking about the trip curve of the overcurrent device. As a rule of thumb any breaker will carry 135% of its rated current for two hours before tripping (UL standard 489). This means that the highest priced 15 amp receptacle on the market when wired as a feed through device would be burdened with 20.25 amps for a period of up to two hours. Let this continue over and over again and even the highest priced receptacle will fail no matter the wiring method.
We bought this house built in 1964 in August of 1995. We added a room in 1999 to wit I changed two of the circuits on that end of the house. The devices both receptacles and switches are back stabbed. We have a house full every Thanksgiving and Christmas that we feed.
With all this hoopla concerning stab-loc can someone explain why I have not had a failure with my kitchen receptacles? They get one hell of a work load during these two times of the year feeding many meals. We have blenders, coffee makers, deep fryers, warming plats, and the like in constant use for at least two days twice a year. Could it possibly be the method used when installing the stab-loc devices by the electrician at the time?
I think that you are a very smart electrician based on the content of your posts. I feel in my heart that you hold the trade in high esteem. I know from experience that your thoughts concerning methods will change as you get more experience in the trade. You will learn to say that in my opinion I don’t trust one method over another method instead of just bashing an approved method.
Now look at this link and we can start another debate on inferior and superior
http://www.ampnetconnect.com/documents/NM_Connector_Presentation_Rev4_Web_[090123].pdf