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Thread: Looking for a toilet that fits in a small space

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeQ View Post
    That's what I was thinking (too much effort for too little gain).

    I have the wall behind the toilet stripped to bare studs. I wonder if I should consider a wall mounted toilet with the tank in the wall? This could achieve a gain of 8 or 9 inches. I notice the Toto Aquia but the specs don't appear to mention whether it has an elongated bowl or not (it looks like it does) and the flush action of this model is not rated on Terry's consumer toilet reviews. I would need to mount the tank at the minimum height due to a horizontal plumbing vent in the wall. Would this reduce the flush action?

    MikeQ
    It is a "compact" elongated bowl.

    I have some experience with this: our refurbished neighborhood beach house has the Duravit wall-mount and our country club's new beach house has brand-new Aquia wall-mounts; both installations, interestingly-enough, use the Geberit in-wall tank, which is odd since Toto makes a combo that includes the tank as well for a price that's better than the Geberit [and it comes ready for pex or a different one ready for copper]. You have 21-1/16 from the finished wall to the tip of the bowl, so that's going to give you some room -- about 7-ish inches over the elongated Drake and less over the round.

    The flush on these is different from what you find in the typical toilets that we have been reviewing. It's called a "washdown" flush and it just pours the water violently into the bowl. The Duravit is disquieting to me, because it never seems to break the surface of the water. If you have bugs on the surface, for example (beach house), the thing can go through this violent flush and the darn things are just doing the backstroke right where they were...there's no gurgle, gurgle as the stuff on the top gets pushed under the lip of the bowl outflow. Just weird. Although the Toto is also a washdown flush and also doesn't have that gurgle, gurgle, the stuff on the surface more obviously disappears, and it doesn't have a refill stream that looks like it's coming from one of those fountains with the little boy peeing into the fountain bowl like the Duravit.



    In short: wall-hung is gonna give you a totally-different flush, and some more space in the room, but maybe not quite as much "package space". However, it's certainly acceptable. As to whether your proposed mounting strategy will affect how the thing flushes, I can't help there.
    Last edited by Terry; 09-20-2012 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #17
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    As I understand it, unless the wall is deeper than a standard 2x4 studwall, you'd lose some of that space by making the wall thicker to hold the tank and plumbing. You'd have to read the spec sheet to see the minimum, though.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #18
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post

    The flush on these is different from what you find in the typical toilets that we have been reviewing. It's called a "washdown" flush and it just pours the water violently into the bowl.

    In short: wall-hung is gonna give you a totally-different flush, and some more space in the room, but maybe not quite as much "package space". However, it's certainly acceptable.
    Thanks for the feedback. I currently have a Toto in my main bath and while I don't know the exact model it is a G-Max flush. Works very well and I am more than happy with it. The only thing I don't like is it is regular white porcelain (not Sanagloss) and it is stained very easily. Is G-Max flush a type of washdown flush (but without the dual flush feature)? I'm wondering if the flush action and bowl shape of the Aquia wall mount can be compared to the Aquia III?

  4. #19
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    As I understand it, unless the wall is deeper than a standard 2x4 studwall, you'd lose some of that space by making the wall thicker to hold the tank and plumbing. You'd have to read the spec sheet to see the minimum, though.
    When I reviewed the specs of the Aquia wall mount they indicated it could be mounted in a 3 1/2" wall cavity.

  5. #20
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You may have a problem with getting the vent where it needs to go if you don't have more depth.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #21
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    You may have a problem with getting the vent where it needs to go if you don't have more depth.
    Maybe I don't understand what you are saying but I would install the water tank under the horizontal plumbing vent line.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeQ View Post
    Maybe I don't understand what you are saying but I would install the water tank under the horizontal plumbing vent line.
    We're getting outside my expertise, but I do know that Toto makes an "optional residential installation kit" that is supposed to fit a 2x4 wall instead of 2x6, and it has a special drain kit. The installation instructions are on the toto web site. Look at CWT418MFG for the whole shebang.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeQ View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I currently have a Toto in my main bath and while I don't know the exact model it is a G-Max flush. Works very well and I am more than happy with it. The only thing I don't like is it is regular white porcelain (not Sanagloss) and it is stained very easily. Is G-Max flush a type of washdown flush (but without the dual flush feature)? I'm wondering if the flush action and bowl shape of the Aquia wall mount can be compared to the Aquia III?
    The flush on the Aquia wall-mount is different from your G-Max flusher. More of a big cascade of water into the bowl and you don't get that same gurgle at the end (hence "washdown"). Your G-Max uses a lot of the water to pull the water down from the bowl and through the trapway (which is one reason you have to start with the right amount of water in the bowl), and less for rinsing, if that makes sense. I wish I had used an Aquia floor-mount before so I could compare for you, but I haven't. However, given the suprising number of videos on youtube of toilets flushing, maybe you could type in Aquia there and see what comes up. (There's a couple of videos there of a properly-functioning Drake G-Max flush that I made for someone who wondered if his toilet was working right. It wasn't, and he could see the difference in the video.)

  9. #24
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    The flush on the Aquia wall-mount is different from your G-Max flusher. More of a big cascade of water into the bowl and you don't get that same gurgle at the end (hence "washdown"). Your G-Max uses a lot of the water to pull the water down from the bowl and through the trapway (which is one reason you have to start with the right amount of water in the bowl), and less for rinsing, if that makes sense.
    Good idea!

    I found this video of an Aqiua floor mount:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEPkLcIeAI

    It looks to flush almost just like my Toto G-Max except the G-max water level goes closer to zero during the very end of the flush. The washdown part looks very similar.

    I also found this video of an Aquia wall mount that looks like it may not be installed or adjusted properly:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1206um8cko

    It looks like the flow is terminated too early.

    MikeQ

  10. #25
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    We're getting outside my expertise, but I do know that Toto makes an "optional residential installation kit" that is supposed to fit a 2x4 wall instead of 2x6, and it has a special drain kit. The installation instructions are on the toto web site. Look at CWT418MFG for the whole shebang.
    Yes, I saw that, it looks like the drain may be smaller diameter. I wonder if that would affect it's flushing ability?
    Last edited by MikeQ; 07-19-2012 at 11:18 AM.

  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeQ View Post
    Good idea!

    I found this video of an Aqiua floor mount:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEPkLcIeAI

    It looks to flush almost just like my Toto G-Max except the G-max water level goes closer to zero during the very end of the flush. The washdown part looks very similar.

    I also found this video of an Aquia wall mount that looks like it may not be installed or adjusted properly:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1206um8cko

    It looks like the flow is terminated too early.

    MikeQ
    I saw both those videos and I was shocked that the first guy got it to gurgle. Every one of these Duravit and Aquia wall-mounts I have seen doesn't have the gurgle, and there's something weirdly-incomplete and unsatisfying about it. The Duravits I have seen are worse than the Aquias, which in my experience are just like the second one you posted. If you look at 4-5 other Aquia floor-mounts on youtube, even, they all flush without the gurgle. Either there are a lot of crappy installs out there, or that's the way they normally work. I would actually be curious to know which one it is...

  12. #27
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    I saw both those videos and I was shocked that the first guy got it to gurgle. Every one of these Duravit and Aquia wall-mounts I have seen doesn't have the gurgle, and there's something weirdly-incomplete and unsatisfying about it.
    I think the first video is a floor mount. I would think the gurgle/no gurgle would have to do with either the amount and speed of the water released and/or the amount of wasteline vertical drop before hitting a Y.

  13. #28
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    These toilets stop the draining when the siphon is broken...THAT causes the gurgle. The shape of the newer toilets and the speed with which they flush all combine to make the gurgle more common of one that works well. If you want silent, use an outhouse!

    A dual-flush toilet by its nature will have either less water in the bowl to start with, since you still want to empty it all regardless of the small/large flush you activate otherwise, it would only be diluting things, and not flushing them out. Depending on the design, you can either make a smaller waterspot that is deeper, or a shallower one that is wider. Or, make one that only dilutes things and doesn't really flush on the smaller flush.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeQ View Post
    I think the first video is a floor mount. I would think the gurgle/no gurgle would have to do with either the amount and speed of the water released and/or the amount of wasteline vertical drop before hitting a Y.
    I thought that, too, but there are a bunch of floor-mount Aquia videos with no gurgle that look very much like the action of the wall-mount. So I'm confused.

  15. #30
    DIY Member MikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    FWIW, if you go with the Drake (not the Drake II or any other toilet in the Toto line), you could move that drain so it's 11" off the finished wall and the Drake will fit (but also beware the baseboard or whatever at the floor level, if there is one). However, that's probably a lot of work that's then going to leave you with a very challenging situation if you decide to or otherwise need to swap the Drake for something else (or if you or your successor wants to put in a different toilet ten years from now), so it's not something that's probably all that brilliant an idea.
    After visiting the site I've eliminated the wall mount idea and since I'll be raising the drain rough-in to accommodate a tile floor I am quite interested in the Drake I. I've already cut the 90 degree ABS elbow below the drain off at the horizontal end. I did this because the original rough-in was actually 12 3/8" from the finished wall. So I'm committed to moving the drain closer to the wall. The only question is how close.

    What is the story behind the Drake I and it's larger back wall clearance? Is this a model designed specifically for installs where the 12" rough-in has shrunk to 11" due to addition of thicker wall facings being added (such as tile)? Why would the Drake I be unique in this way?

    Maybe I should mount the drain at 11 1/4- 11 1/2" to preserve future options?

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeQ; 07-24-2012 at 06:50 AM.

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