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Thread: New Project: Water Cannon

  1. #16
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    No. Although you could get the voltage with say 20 car batteries (~240v), it would still be DC (direct current) and the pumps that you listed are for AC (alternating current). There are ways to convert DC to AC, but it isn't worth it for something like this. The best thing is to get a pump that is designed for 12v.

    You may have a hard time finding a 12v pump that will do 40-50 gpm, and if you do, it may draw a lot of current and drain the battery quickly. It is worth searching for, though. Depending on what you find, it may be a matter of reducing the nozzle size on the cannon in order to still get the distance, but with less flow.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    You need a 12 volt DC pump.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...atchallpartial

    If you need something more powerful than a 12 volt direct current pump then get a gasoline powered pump.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...8463_200398463

    If that does not work then you could get a gas powered generator that could power the type pump you are trying to use.

  3. #18
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Sounds like a overkill to have some water fun.

    Walmart sells cheap Water Guns that are fun. Lakes are for swimming, water skying and fishing in the USA.

    Portable batteries that can give 230V are hard to find and would be very expensive if you did find one.


    A gas powered motor driving a pump is the only way to go if you are serious about the flow that you want.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  4. #19
    DIY Junior Member ?ukas H?u?t?ler's Avatar
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    Allright, thanks everybody for your awesome tips. So I found this 12v pump that would do 55 gpm at a 4m head.

    More details:
    95 Watt/8000 U / min
    DC 12 V/13 A
    (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional.../dp/B004J0FJZS)

    I found a nozzle that can take it down to 1 cm, do you think it'd work on one or a couple of car batteries? If yes, should I get a tighter pipe (the one I have now is 18 mm) for the cannon to maximise pressure?

    Peace,

    [EDIT] - Forgot to pot an example battery. How's about this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alphaline-07...9169224&sr=8-1
    Last edited by ?ukas H?u?t?ler; 06-08-2012 at 08:29 AM.

  5. #20
    DIY Junior Member chad1988's Avatar
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    That sounds cool. I've always wanted to make a water cannon.

    Chad
    My Cover of Wrapped Around Brad Paisley's song.

  6. #21
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ?ukas H?u?t?ler View Post
    Allright, thanks everybody for your awesome tips. So I found this 12v pump that would do 55 gpm at a 4m head.

    More details:
    95 Watt/8000 U / min
    DC 12 V/13 A
    (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional.../dp/B004J0FJZS)

    I found a nozzle that can take it down to 1 cm, do you think it'd work on one or a couple of car batteries? If yes, should I get a tighter pipe (the one I have now is 18 mm) for the cannon to maximise pressure?

    Peace,

    [EDIT] - Forgot to pot an example battery. How's about this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alphaline-07...9169224&sr=8-1

    You may have better luck going with a Deep Cycle Battery.

    A Deep Cycle Battery would last longer in that application.


    Have Fun, Be safe and wear Eye protection.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    The pump in your link looks like a bilge pump. With 4 meters of head that converts to about 6 psi. I would think you need more psi to spray farther. I would go with a pump with higher pressure so the cannon will shoot more distance. I would play around with different nozzles to get the distance you want.
    Also the pump in your link is a submergable pump, not sure if that is what you need or not. Where do you plan to locate the cannon and the pump? By where I mean is it going to be on a dock, beach, in a kayak, or mounted on the roof of your car? To get good answers you have to provide good information and a description of what you plan to do , pictures help too.

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member ?ukas H?u?t?ler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smooky View Post
    The pump in your link looks like a bilge pump. With 4 meters of head that converts to about 6 psi. I would think you need more psi to spray farther. I would go with a pump with higher pressure so the cannon will shoot more distance. I would play around with different nozzles to get the distance you want.
    Also the pump in your link is a submergable pump, not sure if that is what you need or not. Where do you plan to locate the cannon and the pump? By where I mean is it going to be on a dock, beach, in a kayak, or mounted on the roof of your car? To get good answers you have to provide good information and a description of what you plan to do , pictures help too.
    That's what I was afraid of. I've made a couple different nozzles that work great, one of 7 mm, the smallest one 3 mm. Here's a nice drawing of what I'm planning:

    Name:  Water cannon.jpg
Views: 208
Size:  26.2 KB

    I could be standing on a small yeti as well, but this is basically the confguration. The idea is to be able to fit the battery into this suitcase:

    Name:  P1120809.jpg
Views: 199
Size:  19.9 KB

    It's 13" x 19,5" x 7,5"

    Name:  P1120801.jpg
Views: 202
Size:  20.1 KB

    This is the prototype barrel. It's 18 mm Ý, 26" long and can be bushed down to 7 or 3 mm at the end by the nozzles I've made. Water will be fed from the right. Would it maximise pressure if I'd use a hose tighter than the barrel to feed the water through the pipe? Or is it equated when the water is forced down to 3 mm?

    Thanks again you guys for your great help,

    Lukas

  9. #24
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    Many of the 12 volt submergible pumps that I am finding pump a large volume of water but do not produce a lot of pressure. There are a few, but they can get rather expensive. Here are some links to 12 volt pumps. Most of this type of pump is used in motor homes or it is the type used for agriculture sprayers. This type of pump does not set in the water. You would need an intake hose that would be placed in the lake. You need a float or something to keep it from sucking up so much trash and a strainer. The suction hose needs to be hard enough so it will not collapse when the pump starts sucking on it. I would use hose and fittings with at least ĺ inch inside diameter until you get to your cannon, otherwise don’t try to restrict the flow except for the nozzle at the end of the cannon. I believe I would just use a battery box and forget the suitcase. You could always camouflage it some other way or let the yeti hold it.

    http://www.all-about-the-home.co.uk/...12v-6843-p.asp

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006J7VL8...SIN=B006J7VL8S

    http://www.wcsuk.com/acatalog/SHURFL...4-14-PU48.html

    http://www.williamsonpumps.co.uk/

    http://www.lilie.com/shurflo/infos-2s.pdf

    http://kanubistanker.de/online-shop/...schwasserpumpe
    Last edited by Smooky; 06-09-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #25
    DIY Junior Member ?ukas H?u?t?ler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smooky View Post
    Many of the 12 volt submergible pumps that I am finding pump a large volume of water but do not produce a lot of pressure. There are a few, but they can get rather expensive. Here are some links to 12 volt pumps. Most of this type of pump is used in motor homes or it is the type used for agriculture sprayers. This type of pump does not set in the water. You would need an intake hose that would be placed in the lake. You need a float or something to keep it from sucking up so much trash and a strainer. The suction hose needs to be hard enough so it will not collapse when the pump starts sucking on it. I would use hose and fittings with at least ĺ inch inside diameter until you get to your cannon, otherwise donít try to restrict the flow except for the nozzle at the end of the cannon. I believe I would just use a battery box and forget the suitcase. You could always camouflage it some other way or let the yeti hold it.

    http://www.all-about-the-home.co.uk/...12v-6843-p.asp

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006J7VL8...SIN=B006J7VL8S

    http://www.wcsuk.com/acatalog/SHURFL...4-14-PU48.html

    http://www.williamsonpumps.co.uk/

    http://www.lilie.com/shurflo/infos-2s.pdf

    http://kanubistanker.de/online-shop/...schwasserpumpe
    Hey thanks for looking these pumps up.

    So I'm looking at this one: http://www.wcsuk.com/acatalog/SHURFL...4-14-PU48.html

    It seems like something I could use, high pressure and all. However, it just pumps 13 liter per minute, 7,8 times the volume of the barrel. Even at high pressure, will this really be enough? Seems to me that the pumps would still need to pump a certain volume to get it right, or am I totally wrong?

    Thanks,

  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    Here are a few links to Flojet pumps. Some of them can pump up to around 5 gallons per minute. If you nozzel down your cannon and use a pump that has at least 30 psi, it should work very well. You should be able to shoot alot over 12 feet, even at 7 mm.You should be able to find this type of pump with 30 to 60 psi. The higher pressure usually the volume will be less. so a pump that has 30-45 psi and around 5 gallons per minute should do very well. Even a 3 gallon per minute should do pretty good.




    http://sports-explorer.shoppingfount...uk/228771.html

    http://sports-explorer.shoppingfount...uk/Flojet.html

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flojet-3526-...5&sr=8-2-fkmr1

    http://www.justkampers.com/shop/leis...rs-j16859.html

    http://www.gocaravanning.com/caravan..._batteries.htm

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-66802...332319&sr=8-63

  12. #27
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    You will need more tha 5 gpm unless you go smaller on the nozzle. The volume needs goes as the square of the diameter. For instance, if you took my original calc and used say a 9mm nozzle, the reduction in volume would be (9/18)^2 = 0.25, so about 36 gpm*.25 = 9 gpm (plus additional to cover air resistance).

    With a 7mm nozzle, the required volume is (7/18)^2 * 36 gpm = 5.444 gpm. Again, this is the minimum fllow required to get the distance.

    The design of most things (like this) takes some iteration. In this case, it is like this:

    1. pick a nozzle size (based on what is available or how wet you want to get them)
    2. calulate the volume
    3. calculate the pressure drop
    4. look at pump curves to see if there is a pump available (consider price, power requirements, etc) that can meet the volume minimum at that pressure drop (just looking at max flow or max head won't tell you what you need).
    5. repeat steps 1-4 by adjusting nozzle size until you find something that works.


    Volume is what will determine the distance with a given nozzle size. The pressure drop will be set by the design and the flow rate (friction in the line, losses at the nozzle, etc.). If I have some time later today, I will estimate the pressure drop. Do you know the diameter and length of hose from the pump to the cannon (also type of hose)?


    EDIT: Here is what I came up with. This is the pressure drop for different nozzles at what I calculate for the minimum flow rate. These values assume that the pump is located 2m below the cannon and do not include the losses due to the hose. They do include pressure drop due to elevation change, acceleration, and the losses at the nozzle and at the sharp elbow at the inlet to the cannon. If you keep a small nozzle (and lower flow), the pressure drop is mostly due to elevation. It seems like if you use the 3mm nozzle, you will have the easiest time finding a pump that will work (1+ gpm at say 2.5 m head, higher numbers will work better). If you go to a larger nozzle, the pump will need more flow as well as head.

    Nozzle Size (mm) min flow (gpm) min flow (lpm) dP (m)
    3 1.0 3.8 2.25045
    5 5.4 20.6 2.29762
    7 9.0 34.0 2.56335
    9 16.0 60.5 3.39408
    18 36.0 136.1 7.00267
    Last edited by nukeman; 06-10-2012 at 02:27 PM.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    Today I got my 12 volt pump out and set it up with an inlet hose in a wash tub full of water. I set the pump on top of the truck so there was about 1.5 meters of lift. I used regular garden hose with a valve on the end of the outlet. I could get from 6 feet to 27 feet by adjusting the valve opening. I did have some collapse on the suction hose but it still worked. My pump has a pressure switch so it turns itself off when it builds up enough pressure when the valve is closed. When I allow it to build pressure and open the valve it gets the most distance. With the valve full open, about 12 mm it gets the shortest distance.

    My pump is a 12 volt FLOJET Model 4300-504
    13 amps
    4.9 GPM / 18.5 LPM
    Press 45 PSI / 3.1 Bar Max

    http://www.pumpagents.com/FlojetPumps/4300-504.html

    I use a 3/4 inch inline filter similar to the one in this link on the inlet side of the pump.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...=0&FORM=IDFRIR
    Last edited by Smooky; 06-10-2012 at 04:45 PM.

  14. #29
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smooky View Post
    Today I got my 12 volt pump out and set it up with an inlet hose in a wash tub full of water. I set the pump on top of the truck so there was about 1.5 meters of lift. I used regular garden hose with a valve on the end of the outlet. I could get from 6 feet to 27 feet by adjusting the valve opening. I did have some collapse on the suction hose but it still worked. My pump has a pressure switch so it turns itself off when it builds up enough pressure when the valve is closed. When I allow it to build pressure and open the valve it gets the most distance. With the valve full open, about 12 mm it gets the shortest distance.

    My pump is a 12 volt FLOJET Model 4300-504
    13 amps
    4.9 GPM / 18.5 LPM
    Press 45 PSI / 3.1 Bar Max

    http://www.pumpagents.com/FlojetPumps/4300-504.html

    I use a 3/4 inch inline filter similar to the one in this link on the inlet side of the pump.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...=0&FORM=IDFRIR

    Sounds like fun.

    I guess you could add a small tank using a pump like that so you would have a little reserve.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    Sounds like a overkill to have some water fun.

    snipped
    Portable batteries that can give 230V are hard to find and would be very expensive if you did find one.

    Also, I would think that 230 Volts AC or DC would be very dangerous to use with a water toy.

    I like regular pump up water canons, which do a good job and are cheap enough.


    German and Swiss designers come up with fabulous equipment; I work for a Swiss company, but everything is always overkill, WHY????????????????? Like Don said
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

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