Replace all Wiring that was Stolen any great suggestion???????????

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Chad Schloss

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"And now that I am thinking of the unnecessary extra current available to cook a deteriorating cord, I am even more adamant."

well how about 12 ga on an AFCI breaker? wouldn't that 'help' find such a fault?
 
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"And now that I am thinking of the unnecessary extra current available to cook a deteriorating cord, I am even more adamant."

well how about 12 ga on an AFCI breaker? wouldn't that 'help' find such a fault?

It won't help you pull the wire and fold it into the box. Or pay the premium on 12 ga.
 
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JWelectric

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well how about 12 ga on an AFCI breaker? wouldn't that 'help' find such a fault?

That will depend on who you are talking with as most don't believe that they work as claimed.

They seem to do fine with an arc between two conductors but no so good when the arc is contained in just one conductor. I have seen many discolored neutrals that were protected by arc fault and not tightened in the terminal bar and the arc fault did not open so should this be happening in a damaged cord it wouldn’t open either.

If it is not arcing and only overheating they will not open. Think of a portable electric heater, 1500 watts going through an 18 gauge cord for hours. The arc fault device is not seeing an arc but the cord is melting before your eyes.

Now think of a plug strip or a dollar store extension cord that has a high load. The arc fault will not protect against the heat generated by this load either.

Then we have the very delicate subject matter that is talked about in the circles that I sit in. Someone is doing work in their own homes or as most will call them the do-it-yourselfer that will not get inspections and has limited or no knowledge of what they are doing and seek help from other DIYers over the internet. In most of these cases the $65 arc fault is bypassed for the cheaper $6 standard breaker due simply to the cost. This is not to mention the other faults found such as box fill, types of joints, and the list go on and on.

Having worked with home inspectors during the sale of a home I have seen some pretty scary DIY installations and set in wonderment of how the home did not burn to the ground. One that comes to mind was a multiwire circuit from a two pole 30 amp breaker for the addition of a sunroom built over a patio. 12/3 was installed to supply the lights and receptacles and one receptacle at a window for a wall shaker. When the AC was turned on it tripped the 20 amp breaker so they replaced it with a 30.
The home inspector found one receptacle that didn’t work so he suggested me and the buyer had me take a look. This receptacle was cooked completely to the point of disintegration not to mention the damage to the cable.

I know this has little to do with the subject being discussed here but the heat allowed to pass through the 15 amp receptacles would have been the same should such a load have been protected by 20 amps.

My point is that a 15 amp receptacle is rated at 15 amps period. Yes the tab is rated at 20 amps let through but the receptacle (the part we plug into) is still rated for a load of no more than 12 amps so to install this on a 20 amp circuit will surly cause a failure on a heavily loaded receptacle.
 

DonL

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One problem I see with having 15 amp breakers, is that if they do trip then many homeowners will replace them with 20 Amp.

And they may not understand that their wiring is not made for it.


If you have a bad appliance cord and continue using it then you are just plain stupid, and that can't be fixed.
 
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One problem I see with having 15 amp breakers, is that if they do trip then many homeowners will replace them with 20 Amp.

And they may not understand that their wiring is not made for it.


If you have a bad appliance cord and continue using it then you are just plain stupid, and that can't be fixed.

Anyone who replaces a 15 breaker with a 20 is none too bright either.
 

Ballvalve

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I'll bang this drum one more time: for the contractor, installing 15 amp is better. It costs less in materials, and it goes in faster. It is a whole lot easier to stuff the wires into the boxes. I often can install 14ga by myself where I would need help with 12ga.

I'll bang all your guys drums with a ball pein hammer: Just about evey country except Kenya wire for 240 volts. Imagine all you electricians pulling wire the size of speaker wire - 16 gauge or so - Imagine wiring with a 5/16 drill bit.

AMERICA THE STUUUUUPID! That roll of Romex just went down to 18$ a roll.

My European friends see a roll of 12 ga wire and have a good belly laugh at our waste. I especially like my shop with three phase - I think 5 HP takes 14 gauge. Try that in 120 volts.

In some systems elsewhere in the world, plugs have replaceable fuses incorporated, and the fuse is rated to protect the device the plug is connected to.

AND.... they have REAL plugs and receptacles that put our junk to shame. At 240 volts. and they do not allow contact with the prongs while being plugged in like our JOKE "protective" new outlets with the little gates built in. Face it guys, Edison and some dopes in the 1800's decided less was better, and cost America trillions in wasted copper.

As to irons, I never saw one over 1200 watts except at dads tailor shop and it weighed about 20 pounds.
 

DonL

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I'll bang all your guys drums with a ball pein hammer: Just about evey country except Kenya wire for 240 volts. Imagine all you electricians pulling wire the size of speaker wire - 16 gauge or so - Imagine wiring with a 5/16 drill bit.

AMERICA THE STUUUUUPID! That roll of Romex just went down to 18$ a roll.

My European friends see a roll of 12 ga wire and have a good belly laugh at our waste. I especially like my shop with three phase - I think 5 HP takes 14 gauge. Try that in 120 volts.



AND.... they have REAL plugs and receptacles that put our junk to shame. At 240 volts. and they do not allow contact with the prongs while being plugged in like our JOKE "protective" new outlets with the little gates built in. Face it guys, Edison and some dopes in the 1800's decided less was better, and cost America trillions in wasted copper.

As to irons, I never saw one over 1200 watts except at dads tailor shop and it weighed about 20 pounds.

Good point.

220-230-240 or what ever you want to call it is more efficient also.


120 is for kids.
 
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Just about evey country except Kenya wire for 240 volts.

I BELIEVE Japan is at 100v. I suppose I could look it up......

Your point is absolutely well taken. One uses half as much copper (approx) when one doubles the voltage.

Of course, a higher voltage is more dangerous. Again, there is a trade-off. We COULD run our homes on 12v AC and the opportunity for electrocution would rather drop off. Assuming you are not soaking wet when you get up against the hot conductor.

And we could run them at 600v and use 24ga for the kitchen circuits.

Seriously. 240v would be and is more efficient in many ways, but we don't have it and never will.

And I cannot see any point in wiring general purpose circuits at 20amp.
 

ActionDave

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Japan has areas that are straight 240 and some that are 120/240. This has something to do with the work the U.S. did after WWII.

If our infrastructure had been bombed back to the Stone Age after WWII like it was in Europe we would likely be on a straight 240V system also.

The U.S. system is what it is because we had electric power first, and worked all the bugs out for the rest of the world. 110V was enough for the early uses. As electric power evolved 110/220V system was adopted to support existing equipment. Later on voltage was bumped up to 120/240.
 

Ballvalve

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http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm

Have a look at the word chart. We are a third or 4th world country, in with HAITI and JAMAICA. Imagine that Afghanistan and Albania and Iran know better than "US".

ActionDave makes good points.... but if we can push sprinkler systems on residences, and now in California, off water systems homes require 250 gallons of water at 50 PSI. That would buy you a pretty fair used car. NOW they are requiring special roof clips with bizzare structural structural connections for .......SOLAR PANELS. Even if your roof only faces north and you are in a grove of 200' Redwood trees. And you never plan for panels.

Point being, If we mice allow some green over educated, over paid college bone heads to destroy the building industry, how about mandating 240v lights, at the very least. It would be the only helpful item. Imagine, you can buy mobile homes - with none of the requirements.

Time for builders to do a sit in at the capitol. And surround it with excavators.
 
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