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Thread: States like California are oulawing the use of brass in water wells?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Behrens88's Avatar
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    Default States like California are oulawing the use of brass in water wells?

    This is just a general question but something I may be concerned about in the future. As far as I know they are not banning brass in wells here in MI. Why is brass a bad thing in water well components and plumbing? I thought brass was good or is there something I'm missing?

  2. #2
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    There banning it because of the lead content in the brass. More laws to protect use from our self. But we continue to allow the Chinese to import products with much higher amounts of lead in them.

    John

  3. #3
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnjh2o1 View Post
    There banning it because of the lead content in the brass. More laws to protect use from our self. But we continue to allow the Chinese to import products with much higher amounts of lead in them.

    John
    It is probably the Chinese brass that they are targeting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass#Lead_content
    Lead contentTo enhance the machinability of brass, lead is often added in concentrations of around 2%. Since lead has a lower melting point than the other constituents of the brass, it tends to migrate towards the grain boundaries in the form of globules as it cools from casting. The pattern the globules form on the surface of the brass increases the available lead surface area which in turn affects the degree of leaching. In addition, cutting operations can smear the lead globules over the surface. These effects can lead to significant lead leaching from brasses of comparatively low lead content.[7]

    Silicon is an alternative to lead; however, when silicon is used in a brass alloy, the scrap must never be mixed with leaded brass scrap because of contamination and safety problems.[8]

    In October 1999 the California State Attorney General sued 13 key manufacturers and distributors over lead content. In laboratory tests, state researchers found the average brass key, new or old, exceeded the California Proposition 65 limits by an average factor of 19, assuming handling twice a day.[9] In April 2001 manufacturers agreed to reduce lead content to 1.5%, or face a requirement to warn consumers about lead content. Keys plated with other metals are not affected by the settlement, and may continue to use brass alloys with higher percentage of lead content.[10][11]

    Also in California, lead-free materials must be used for "each component that comes into contact with the wetted surface of pipes and pipe fittings, plumbing fittings and fixtures." On January 1, 2010, the maximum amount of lead in "lead-free brass" in California was reduced from 4% to 0.25% lead. The common practice of using pipes for electrical grounding is discouraged, as it accelerates lead corrosion.[12][13]

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member Behrens88's Avatar
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    I did not know they use lead in the brass making process. I had a feeling it had to do with lead. Thanks for the answers. So governments are worried about a small amount of lead in brass but it is ok to dump truck loads of poisonous sodium fluoride in city water systems and put harmful BPA (synthetic estrogen) in plastic food containers? wow!
    Last edited by Behrens88; 12-31-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Yes that's it exactly. It all depends on who's pockets are being lined and by whom.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

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    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Yes that's it exactly. It all depends on who's pockets are being lined and by whom.

    Won't be long and Lead Acid batteries will be outlawed.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

    Cyber Security Protection for Windows C:\ > WWW.WinForce.Net

  7. #7
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I'm counting on the coming revolution to solve most of those issues
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  8. #8
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    At least we can make Bullets out of the Old Battery Lead.


    Back to Lead Balls and Powder...
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

    Cyber Security Protection for Windows C:\ > WWW.WinForce.Net

  9. #9
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    At least we can make Bullets out of the Old Battery Lead.


    Back to Lead Balls and Powder...
    Prolly not for long... lots of concern for lead bird shot sitting on the bottom of lakes. There are specialty lead reclaimers going around to shooting ranges to clean them up.

  10. #10
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, Nero fiddles while Rome burns
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  11. #11
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Prolly not for long... lots of concern for lead bird shot sitting on the bottom of lakes. There are specialty lead reclaimers going around to shooting ranges to clean them up.

    That won't mater none when it is each for his own...


    P.S. Just more thieves to shoot at steeling your lead.
    Last edited by DonL; 12-31-2011 at 01:29 PM. Reason: P.S.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

    Cyber Security Protection for Windows C:\ > WWW.WinForce.Net

  12. #12
    Porky Cutter,MGWC Porky's Avatar
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    Everyone's right! That's why many companies are manufacturing Stainless Steel products as an option, usually at a larger cost.
    FYI: 90 year old people in New York City have had 1" lead lines feeding their homes from city water for 100 plus years and no one has died from lead pipes. It's just politicians saving us from ourselves while making more money.
    Porky Cutter, MGWC
    (Master Ground Water Consultant)

  13. #13
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Removing lead from plumbing will be a Federal law starting in 2014. Lead does not leach out of plumbing unless you have acidic water, and then it is the water quality that is the problem, not the lead in the plumbing. In their infinite wisdom, the EPA decided that if kids eating lead paint off of Chinese toys is harmful, then all lead must be harmful. So they are trying to make themselves seem useful by banning all lead.

    All these new regulations do is increase your taxes to pay the EPA more, decrease the quality of the products you can buy, (lead is an important part of quality in materials), and greatly increase the cost of all plumbing products.

    An even newer directive from the ****** in cheif is for the EPA to regulate "sustainability". This will give the EPA even more powers to abuse us with. We ain't seen nothing yet. Most of the bad stuff has been scheduled not to come into effect until Obamma is either re-elected or out of office. (too late to do anything about it)

  14. #14
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Normally I bitch about this kind of crap but since I sell and install stuff I don't see anything but a little more profit on my end.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  15. #15
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Your cost of goods will increase so much that you will have to live with less profit to get the job. Nobody but the manufacturers and the government make money with excessive regulations.

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