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Thread: 3 companies came to do tests, please advise on which softener

  1. #16
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Regeneration would be on average once a week and you can see what night it will be by looking at the gallons remaining on the display.
    Thanks Gary. I used the link in your signature and it stated that with an iron level of 2.0 I may want to regenerate every 3-4 days. Do you say on average once a week because of the type of iron it is compaired to 3-4 days?

    By using the calculator in your signature's link I am getting 70k capacity to have a 24 hr reserve. By looking at the salt dose chart, I am going to be using a whole lotta salt, alot more than I thought I would anyways. I hope I am seeing this wrong, but at 6 lbs salt dose I will need a 3.5 cu ft resin bed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    based on the SFR needed.
    I read how to use an outdoor faucet or tub but is there a way to be more certain? Can anything be added to these results to act as a buffer? Is the 7000 vs 5600 a matter of the valve porting and not the sfr of the resin bed itself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    not use water for showers, baths, laundry, etc. the night of the regeneration
    why is this?

    thanks for the information
    dustin

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member F6Hawk's Avatar
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    Not sure what he means by not using water the night of regeneration. Not many users will ever know WHEN their softener regenerates, and since the standard programming has it going at 0200, it should be moxnix, unless you are coming home from the club and showering during a regen. In which case, you'd be using untreated water in the event of a single tank system (not a big deal once a week or so), or perhaps exceeding the SFR on a dual-tank system.

    And the wear to which F6Hawk refers (and it's not a fear, it's a fact) is simply being pointed out that a system that regens every night will in fact wear out 10 times faster than one that regens every 10 days (assuming "industry standard" parts, and that nothing is defective to cause premature failure).

    Your numbers are correct, 69,120 in 7 days, covered by a 3.5 cu ft using 6 lbs of salt. You will use about 1095 lbs of salt, and cost yerself about $110 annually (assuming $4.10 per 40# bag).

    Or you could drop down to a 3.0 cu ft, save about $350 on the softener, program it for 24 lbs of salt, spend about $15 more per year... it would take you 23 years before you started seeing a gain in $$$ on the 3.5 cu ft system (assuming average online prices).

    Good luck!

  3. #18

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    Bang. Bang! BANG! "Honey, are you in the shower? I told you not to do laundry today or any water other than the toilet and only for number twos. And don't let me walk in the kitchen and see that the dishes are clean. Don't you ever listen? I told over and over and over not to use any water at the end of the week because the softener might regenerate tonight," said the obsessively-worried-hardness-leakage husband.

    "But dearest, you thought it was going to regenerate last night...and the night before." said the not-really-enjoying-this-scenario wife. "Why didn't you get that twin-tank system so we would never have to worry about your leakage?"

    "Duh," he responded, "because I don't want to come home and find that you have all the faucets and spigots running, toilets flushing, dishwashing running, both showers spewing, washing machine going crazy, fridge water filling up the swimming pool and operating a cheerleading car-wash benefit only to find that hardness may have leaked through and put half-a-gallon of partial untreated water in our new heater." Geez, some women just don't get it."

    "Yes, dear, maybe tomorrow we can start to live another normal-life week---well six days anyway. Oh, by the way, did you remember to reset the softener since your three cousins, uncle and aunt, and that weird sister of yours left three weeks ago?"

    "Oh, shoot............I can't remember--I thought you did it. Why should I be the one to worry about that?"

    "Yes, dear...."
    Last edited by water solutions; 05-28-2012 at 05:52 AM.

  4. #19
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I think the OP said something about a medical condition that may require the use of the shower at night and that was the reason why he did not want the possibility of hard water coming through; although realistically if you have to take a shower late at night for whatever reason, I doubt you will be all that concerned with the hardness. Me, I stay away from twin tank set up's for residential use. I think they are expensive and overkill and more things to fail. Size a standard single tank set for your load and be done with it.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  5. #20
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    I am convinced concerning the twin vs single tank. We will do what we need to to make a single tank work. At the worst we will be left with the same hard water that we already shower in...

    I have never seen a softener, so I do not know what the interface looks like. Does it display the remaining time left until regeneration?

  6. #21
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    If it's a metered demand unit it does
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  7. #22
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    Thanks Gary. I used the link in your signature and it stated that with an iron level of 2.0 I may want to regenerate every 3-4 days. Do you say on average once a week because of the type of iron it is compaired to 3-4 days?
    No, that is for those not going with a larger softener to be able to get a regeneration on a weekly basis or to use Iron Out.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    By using the calculator in your signature's link I am getting 70k capacity to have a 24 hr reserve. By looking at the salt dose chart, I am going to be using a whole lotta salt, alot more than I thought I would anyways. I hope I am seeing this wrong, but at 6 lbs salt dose I will need a 3.5 cu ft resin bed?
    If that is what it showed, that's what you need unless you want to regenerate more often. Sorry but you either buy the necessary salt for a softener or suffer the much higher expensive of living with your iron and hardness.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    I read how to use an outdoor faucet or tub but is there a way to be more certain? Can anything be added to these results to act as a buffer? Is the 7000 vs 5600 a matter of the valve porting and not the sfr of the resin bed itself?
    Yes, add up the max flow rate of the fixtures you use at the same time or use a tub that has no flow restriction, whether you use it or not.

    You use the SFR of the softener, not the control valve but... Fleck says to not use a 5600 on a larger than a 2.0 cuft softener (a 12" diameter tank), I don't recall the max for a 7000 but it is way up there around a 9-10 cuft (maybe a 21" tank).

    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    Originally Posted by Gary Slusser

    not use water for showers, baths, laundry, etc. the night of the regeneration




    why is this?

    thanks for the information
    dustin
    Because you said at times a medical condition causes water use.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #23
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    You use the SFR of the softener, not the control valve but... Fleck says to not use a 5600 on a larger than a 2.0 cuft softener (a 12" diameter tank), I don't recall the max for a 7000 but it is way up there around a 9-10 cuft (maybe a 21" tank).
    If this is true then it seems like the softener I am going to want is a 7000SXT with a 3.0 cu ft resin bed. 96k is the largest bed that I can find.

  9. #24
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    Not sure what he means by not using water the night of regeneration.

    Not many users will ever know WHEN their softener regenerates, and since the standard programming has it going at 0200, it should be moxnix, unless you are coming home from the club and showering during a regen. In which case, you'd be using untreated water in the event of a single tank system (not a big deal once a week or so), or perhaps exceeding the SFR on a dual-tank system.
    He said he used water at night sometimes due to a medical condition.

    After some 25 years of talking to people about their softeners, I can tell you that you'd be surprised by how many people know when their softener regenerates.

    Quote Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
    And the wear to which F6Hawk refers (and it's not a fear, it's a fact) is simply being pointed out that a system that regens every night will in fact wear out 10 times faster than one that regens every 10 days (assuming "industry standard" parts, and that nothing is defective to cause premature failure).
    Oh I see new conditions now but, after 25 years experience with control valves, and comparing that to your is it two weeks experience with your first softener, - I can tell you that it is rare for Fleck or Clack valves to have wear problems regardless of how frequently they operate.

    The piston travels in seals made of industrial grade materials and only move slowly up to 1.5" and back during a regeneration of normally 90 minutes or less. Backwashed or regenerated filters that operate daily use the same parts and materials although the piston has a slightly different side view shape and there can be fewer seals than in a softener and the wearable pars last 10-20 years. And then it is usually something in the water that causes a build up on the edge of the seals or on the piston between the seals, in the spacer area, that causes the "wear". When there is iron in the water, you use Iron Out or some other type resin cleaner and it removes any build up the iron causes.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #25
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    If this is true then it seems like the softener I am going to want is a 7000SXT with a 3.0 cu ft resin bed. 96k is the largest bed that I can find.
    I'd suggest the Fleck 2510 but... any dealer can sell you any size softener you need but they may not have it on their web site so you'd have to call them and ask them for one. Or you drop back to an "80K" and program for whatever salt efficiency and K of capacity you want to use.

    And as I think I've said to you, I'd go a 2.0 cuft as long as you don't need a higher than 13 gpm for your peak demand and regenerate it more frequently. If you need more than 13 gpm, go to a 2.5 cuft.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #26
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    I'd suggest the Fleck 2510 but...

    And as I think I've said to you, I'd go a 2.0 cuft as long as you don't need a higher than 13 gpm for your peak demand and regenerate it more frequently. If you need more than 13 gpm, go to a 2.5 cuft.
    I see that the 2510 does not do upflow brining. Is this not a critical feature? Why do you prefer the 2510 over the 7000?
    Also, this may be obvious, but, at 2.0 cu ft and a more frequent regeneration, I would not lose salt efficiency? I would be able to run a 2.0 cu ft at half the amount I would need to run it if i were doing an 8 day regeneration, if i did a 4 day regeneration?

    thanks

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member F6Hawk's Avatar
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    4 days with your estimated usage would put you at 43,200 grains. A 2.0 will handle up to 48K using 8 lbs per cu ft, or 16 lbs per regen. That means you can go 4 days plus a little.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member F6Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    If this is true then it seems like the softener I am going to want is a 7000SXT with a 3.0 cu ft resin bed. 96k is the largest bed that I can find.
    http://www.discountwatersofteners.co...eners-s/25.htm

    Had good luck with them. Qualitywaterforless wanted me to wait a month before shipping.

  14. #29
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    thanks I saw them online and they appear to have great prices. But as far as my last question, does the 2510 only do downflow regeneration and if so is it a not so critical feature?

    at a frequency of 4 days regeneration instead of 8 with a softener that is 2.0 cu ft or 2.5, would I be using twice as much water since I regen twice as often?

    Thanks again guys this has been a really big help. If not for this site and the responses I would have a Kinetico K2060 hooked up in my basement and have spent alot more money. The time spent on here was well worth it.

  15. #30

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    Yes, the 2510 does downflow brining only and No it is not a critical feature. It does do hard water water with 2.0ppm backwashing though. I would have recommended a 1.5cuft system and not wait till the softener runs out of capacity before regenerating. Are you planning on a drinking water system--RO?

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