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Thread: 3 companies came to do tests, please advise on which softener

  1. #76
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    At .250 gpm it takes 4 minutes to get one gallon. One gallon dissolves 3 lbs of salt.

    41,000/3333 grains per lb salt efficiency gives you the number of lbs needed.

    Yes 1 gpg and 0 ppm.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #77
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    OK, thanks. If I do another test in a few weeks and am still getting 1 gpg hardness, what do I do to bring this to 0? If I understand correctly, the salt dose will not fix it, this only determines how many days I can go before I need to regenerate? For the time being, I have it programmed to what dittohead posted, and following the changes I did a manual regeneration. If realistic, I would like to bring the dose lower than the 8 lbs that he posted, but if not then it will be fine. Its really not that big of a difference but if I can save 20-30 bucks or so per year then why not.

  3. #78
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    The hardness is determined by the amount of salt used. it is a quality vs efficiency calculation. Extremely efficient settings of 4 pounds per cu. ft. will give the hardness reading you are seeing, this is normal. High salting is much less effiicient but will give higher quality (lower hardness). To properly test to the levels you are looking at would require a different test kit. In all reality, I would leave it as is, wait a couple weeks and see if the quality meets your needs. The difference between 1-5 PPM vs 5-10 usually only matters in steam boiler or EDI pre-treatment, not in resideantial application. FYI, 17.1 ppm = 1 GPG. Your test kit is a GPG test kit. GPG is adequate for the vast majority of testing needs.

    See the chart below for a better explanation.
    Name:  hardness leakage.jpg
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  4. #79
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwassner View Post
    OK, thanks. If I do another test in a few weeks and am still getting 1 gpg hardness, what do I do to bring this to 0? If I understand correctly, the salt dose will not fix it, this only determines how many days I can go before I need to regenerate? For the time being, I have it programmed to what dittohead posted, and following the changes I did a manual regeneration. If realistic, I would like to bring the dose lower than the 8 lbs that he posted, but if not then it will be fine. Its really not that big of a difference but if I can save 20-30 bucks or so per year then why not.
    It seems that isn't working for you. Maybe you should try it my way because my customers tested and got 0 gpg and if they got one or more gpg, my instructions told them that something was wrong.

    Waiting a few weeks to retest is going to do what for you? It isn't working right now and waiting a few weeks to retest isn't going to fix it IMO. It will probably get worse. Or did you use the softener before you programmed it?

    No, the number of days between regenerations comes from the number of gallons or days you set the control valve for.

    The K of capacity is controlled by the lbs of salt used per regeneration. Salt efficiency is the K of capacity divided by the lbs of salt.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #80
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    The reason I wanted to wait was because I changed the settings to what dittohead posted. The settings I had before were incorrect and I wanted to test at the new settings. So yes, I did in a way use it before I programmed it. Will the Rapid Rinse, Brine fill, or either backwash have to be changed if I change the brine draw? What do these affect?

  6. #81
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I suggest 2 manual regenerations, one right after the other with no water use during or between them, at the max of 15 lbs/cuft of resin. That regenerates all the resin, then when the second one is done, set the salt dose you want to use.

    You don't change the other settings.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #82
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    I am now at day 10 and still have at least another days worth, more like 2 left until a regeneration. This is with normal water usage, and we also had a house warming party this weekend with roughly 30 people over and a lot of cooking. I am wondering now what I should change my settings to because I don't want to hit day 14 and have the unit do an auto regeneration. I will admit I am finding calculating this math to be difficult.

    For what its worth, I retested the water after having made the changes posted by dittohead and am at 0 gpg and 0 ppm iron.

  8. #83
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Do a hardness test each day until it regenerates and see if the water stays soft.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #84
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    I can do that. The first day I retested it was day 7 so I will assume that days 1-6 were at 0 gpg 0 ppm.

    So tonight I went to take a shower and the water smelled like eggs, I am assuming its sulfur. I will get a water specialist over here to test it.
    If the well changed and there is sulfur will it hurt the softener? What is the best way to take care of sulfur in water?
    It is strange because the smell is only present when the hot water is on, so far at least. it also is not consistent, it comes and goes.

    Also I wanted to ask much earlier but forgot to: Should I have a pre filter before the softener?
    Last edited by dwassner; 10-18-2012 at 08:42 PM.

  10. #85
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    The softener regenerated on day 14. The water tested the same every time after I made the adjustments.

  11. #86
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Can someone please give me a step by step on the math for how to figure out what I should program this to?

  12. #87
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Try this and ask specific questions if needed;
    http://www.qualitywaterassociates.co...izingchart.htm
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #88
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Hello again. I had an inspection done on my boiler. I mentioned to the tech. that I have 0-1 gpg hardness and he stated that I should attempt to get 3 gpg because at 0 gpg hardness the water can be corrosive/acidic for the heat exchanges in the boiler and in the indirect hw tank. After crunching the numbers again:

    28 gpg hardness + (2.0 ppm iron x 4) = 36 compensated hardness - 3gpg that I now want to keep = 33 compensated hardness

    33 x 210 gallons per day x 8 days = 55,440 grains needed to be removed (62,370 gains if adding an extra day for reserve.)

    Looking at charts, I am in the 8-9 lbs/ft for salt dose. Again, it is a 2.5 cu ft softener. fleck 7000sxt

    Questions I have:
    -Does this look correct?
    -Will Iron start to appear in the water along with the hardness I am trying to keep in the water?
    -My manual mentions a "Safety Factor" setting. Is this not the same thing as adding the extra days worth of reserve to the total grains? Is adding a reserve amount into the equation redundant when using the "Safety Factor"?
    -Is my "Unit Capacity" setting supposed to be at 80x1000 since I have an 80,000 grain system, or is this setting referring to something else?
    -What should I set my "feedwater hardness" setting to. I would assume that it should now be set to 33, since this is my compensated gpg hardness?
    -From re-reading the above posts, it appears that I set the desired salt dose by changing the times of the "regeneration cycle step times". If this is the case, what does the "feedwater hardness" setting do?

    thanks in advance,
    Dustin

  14. #89
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Your boiler guy is wrong. Most boiler applications require the least hardness in the water that can be achieved; like in a few ppm, not in gpg.

    You have to softener all the water and then add in his 3 gpg by adding hard raw water to the outlet soft water stream from the softener, but that will scale up your boiler your time an that is and. Ion exchange softened water is not corrosive.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #90
    DIY Member dwassner's Avatar
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    Is it the pH that he is referring to as corrosive? Can you address the questions about the settings in the unit? Even if I don't attempt to keep the 3 gpg in the water, I need to change the settings because I am hitting the 14 day override every time...

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