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Thread: Las Vegas Water Softener Selection

  1. #76
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I hope that hose clamp connection is a temporary thing
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  2. #77
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    It was installed originally by Culligan about six year ago when the original owner of the home had the Culligan installed by the builder. It has not been an issue, but I always thought is seems a "substandard" installation.

    This drain line has become a real PITA. The existing Culligan uses a 5/8" INSIDE diameter clear plastic tube that connects to some some type of plastic nipple that is screwed into the copper fitting that was sweated to the 1/2" copper pipe (the last picture that Tom commented on) that goes to the drain in the laundry room and then connects to the Culligan.

    The new 7000SXT came with a barbed plastic adapter to convert the 7000SXT to a 1/2" tubing connection. Obviously the 5/8" ID diameter clear plastic tubing that is connected to the pipe is not going to work to connect to the 7000SXT. I was HOPING to avoid pulling off the 5/8" ID clear plastic tubing from the wall connection because I can seem to pull it off and I will have to cut it, since I don't seem to have a choice. I would think I could buy some brass fitting to screw into the copper fitting that was sweated to the copper pipe, and then connect the 1/2" tubing from the new 7000SXT. The supplier of the new 7000SXT included black plastic 1/2" tubing, but it does seem cheap compared to the much much heavier clear plastic that Culligan used. It probably doesn't matter much I guess since this line is not under permanent pressure.

    Just for my info, how are you SUPPPOSED to connect a water softener to a 1/2" copper line that comes from the wall. Culligan installed all (well I have seen three) softeners like this in my community (they partnered with the original builder to rip people off and install the Culligans as part of the sale price of the homes).

    Thanks, JS



    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    I hope that hose clamp connection is a temporary thing

  3. #78
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Yes 3 lbs per gallon of water.

    There is nothing wrong with the hose clamp. Your reinforced vinyl is not tubing, it is iron pipe size (IPS) hose.

    IPS maintains the ID, tubing maintains the OD. Your new drain line is 5/8" OD tubing and the ID is smaller than 1/2", so you need an insert fitting for 5/8" tubing x 1/2" male to replace the vinyl if you're going to, which I wouldn't. To connect the new drain line to the vinyl you need a 5/8" insert x 1/2" female to accept the new drain line 1/2" male and screw them together. The new drain line is industry standard although it usually is opaque not colored. Just make sure the vinyl doesn't kink closed.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #79
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    How about you show me in ANY plumbing code book where that hose clamp connection is approved LOL Oh, sorry, I forgot that you don't bother with codes. LOL
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  5. #80
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    How about you show me in ANY plumbing code book where that hose clamp connection is approved LOL Oh, sorry, I forgot that you don't bother with codes. LOL
    Any suggestions on how TO connect it then?

    JS

  6. #81
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Being Thanksgiving and all I guess I have to eat Crow. I hadn't read closely enough. If that's just the drain line, it's fine.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  7. #82
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Yes 3 lbs per gallon of water.

    There is nothing wrong with the hose clamp. Your reinforced vinyl is not tubing, it is iron pipe size (IPS) hose.

    IPS maintains the ID, tubing maintains the OD. Your new drain line is 5/8" OD tubing and the ID is smaller than 1/2", so you need an insert fitting for 5/8" tubing x 1/2" male to replace the vinyl if you're going to, which I wouldn't. To connect the new drain line to the vinyl you need a 5/8" insert x 1/2" female to accept the new drain line 1/2" male and screw them together. The new drain line is industry standard although it usually is opaque not colored. Just make sure the vinyl doesn't kink closed.

    Thank you Gary, but I need a little clarification. Are you suggesting to keep the hose connected the wall, and then connecting the new tubing to the 7000SXT, and then using some type of coupling to connect the hose to the tube? Is it possible to get a fitting to connect to the 7000SXT to convert the drain fitting from the 1/2" tubing connection to a 5/8" hose connection? That would be easiest, but since the big box stores are closed today, not sure if I can get one there or if I have to go to a plumbing supply house. I am thinking it might be easier to remove the fitting that screws into the copper and just replace the fitting with a brass fitting where I can connect the new tubing (?).

    Happy Thanksgiving and thanks all for your time. Ditto, can you please check my programming question on Page 5?

    Thanks, JS
    Last edited by John Vegas; 11-22-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  8. #83
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    You can connect the vinyl to the 7000 or the new black drain line to the 7000 and then to the vinyl or replace the vinyl with the new drain line and connect it to the 1/2" copper. You just need the right fittings I mentioned above.

    I would connect the vinyl to the 7000 if you have enough of it to do that, or use as much of the new drain line as needed to go from the 7000 to the vinyl. There is no reason to remove/replace the vinyl as long as it can not kink closed. It allows you see color or air if any of either is in the drain water and the new black drain line doesn't.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #84
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Water softener is installed! No major issues, just a few minor:

    1. It was hard to cut the 1" copper with one of those twist and turn cutters, it kept running on me and getting off track, not sure why, because on the first side it was really easy.

    2. Putting the resin in the tank is a real PITA. One bag came with a slight rip in it, so I was trying to get all the material out of the box, etc. I also left a very little bit in the bag when I didn't shake it real well. I probably have about 1.98 CF of resin.

    3. The cheap black drain line is junk. I am going to use the 1/2" ID clear hose and switch that out. I was able to change the fitting to the copper drain line, so now it is 1/2" in all direction.

    4. The fitting that attaches to the Fleck for the drain line has a minor drip. It seems like if you tighten the adapter, it then put the drain line on top, instead of the side. Might need a few more wraps of teflon.

    5. The Fleck is very large and very loud. With the flexible connector (Falcon SS), it does protrude from the wall quite a bit. I have a large garage, but might be a concern if space was at a premium.

    6. I ran it through each cycle and everything seems to work. I didn't get an excessive amount of resin out of the drain (a very little bit in the first 1-3 second when in bypass), so I assume the tank pipe was seated properly, etc. Speaking of resin, that stuff has a very weird texture when you touch it, slimy sorta.

    I'll post pictures when I download them tomorrow.

    Thanks again! JS

  10. #85
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Default BLFC and more!

    It looks like this supplier changed the DLFC size because the items on the back of the unit are crossed out with a Sharpie pen (see photo--kinda sketchy!). When I pulled out the BLFC it has "25" stamped on the plastic (TINY writing!), so maybe they switched it out. They are not open till Monday, so I will call them then. They have it programmed for a 40k unit (it is 2 CF) with a 16 min brine refill cycle -- so I assume with a nominal 2 CF system, it is using 6 lbs of salt per cubic feet because it is sending 4 gallons to the salt witch equals 12 pounds of salt (4 gallons at 3 lb of salt /gallon) (I think I finally get this.).

    What i DO need help with is setting it up for 4 bls of salt per 1 CF of resin. What so i set the "C" of the softener at if I set the BF is set to 10 (for 2.5 gallons of water to use 8 pounds of salt). Do I set "C" to 8 * 3800=30,400 or say 30? Do I need to adjust any of the other settings?

    I am also kinda stressing out about not getting 100% of the resin in the tank. Was it a big deal if I lost maybe one cup of resin in a 2 CF system? I don't really want to take it all apart again just to order some more resin and add it in (is that being crazy?).

    Sorry if I am rambling, but I hope these post help someone in the future. I wish this was not my first install as I learned a lot about both plumbing and of course softeners.

    Thanks again, JS


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  11. #86
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Here are some photos of the 99% completed install (I still need programming HELP!). I want to change the junk black tubing out with some clear 1/2" ID hose that is less prone to kinking. I forgot to put the clamp on the tubing that connects to the Fleck, but it seems solid on the barbed connector anyway. The Falcon Stainless Steel push connects are nice, easy, relatively inexpensive to use and bend nicely into shape. You can see the cr@p Culligan waiting to be sold.

    JS

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  12. #87
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    So ya lost some resin.... it's not a big deal unless you think it is.

    The black drain line is the same PE tubing as the "clear" as you call it, unless you mean to use clear vinyl which is clear and a real no no.

    You do know that there is no pressure in the drain line right? The PE stuff is what you should be using although I don't like colored because you can't see the water in it. That goes for brine line too. Which is also PE.

    You should write on the label what BLFC and DLFC they installed since they didn't.

    To change the salt dose requires you to change the K of capacity number accordingly. You don't set the salt dose per cuft, you set the brine refill minutes for the total number of lbs. at 3 lbs/gallon of refill water. And if you are correct with the 30,400, you round the 30,400 up to 31 K and refill for that amount and round up any fraction of time.

    I sure don't like how far from the wall the softener is because of the over sized (1.25" valve) and extremely physically large 7000 valve.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #88
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Why do the tanks need to be near the wall? Do they get lonely out there LOL The flexi supplies are keeping it further than the valve is. No problem with loosing 2 cups of resin.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  14. #89
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Any chance you get to knock the 700, you will, even though I have already shown that the electrmechanical 5600 and 2510 are the same size. Fleck makes a 90 degree kit part # 61601 that will tighten that install up considerably. Would you like me to post a picture of my system? It is butted up against the wall.

    Why not start knocking the flex lines while your at it, like Tom said, they are the item that is causing the install to be so far away from the wall, not the "oversized 1-1/4" valve".

  15. #90
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Can someone help with setting the "C" value if I want to use 4 lb/cf salt dosage?
    Thanks,
    JS

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