Las Vegas Water Softener Selection

[Gary Slusser]

Guys... you should note that I don't suggest using the flexible SS lines as y'all do but... the 7000 keeps most residential size softeners farther away from the wall than other valves. Plus the fact that this 2.0 cuft softener does not need a 1.25" valve.

JS you input the actual number of lbs in the Clack control valve. I.E. for it to use 4 lbs/regeneration, you use the down arrow button to change the factory default setting of 9.5 lbs to 4 lbs. If you want 4lbs/cuft, then do the math for the number of cuft of resin you have times 4 and change the default 9.5 lbs to that number.

[John Vegas]

The tank standing away from the wall is not an issue in my home because of the large sized garage (three cars) and with the configuration of the door to the house, it sits nicely in the corner near the water heater. I could have bought the vertical connections to the Fleck, but I didn't because A) I am furgal and they are not necessary and B) I just see them as another leak point.

My immediate question is on the programming. I THINK I understand this, but just to confirm (Gary, I don't have a Clack as you indicated in you post):

1. I want to use 4 lb/CF
2. My "C" value should be set to 8 lb * 3800 = 30,400 say 31 for "C"
3. I set my BF as follows--I need to dissolve 8 LB of salt, which requires 2.5 gallons of water. With a BLFC of .25, that requires a BF setting of 10.67 or say 11.
4. My hardness is 18 from the water purveyor. I was thinking of setting to 20 to accommodate any fluctuation.

My supplier set the B2 value to Zero, should I set that to 5? Do I need to change any other settings like the RR, etc.?

Thanks, JS

[John Vegas]

I asked my supplier to supply me some more resin to put in the tank, so I wll be able to sleep at night

I know there is no pressure in the line. Lets beat this drainage line horse to death. The supplier sent vinyl black tubing, NOT polyethylene (PE as you call it). I was thinking about using the braided PVC that they sell at the big box stores and that was installed on the old Culligan. It seems like the braided PVC will not kink nearly as easily at vinyl. Regarding PE, I could not find it locally in 1/2" ID dimension. The brine line is also not PE, but it seems to be black vinyl.

I included some pics of each for reference. Is the braided PVC something good to use? The black vinyl seems cheap and it seems like it tends to kink really easily.

So ya lost some resin.... it's not a big deal unless you think it is.

The black drain line is the same PE tubing as the "clear" as you call it, unless you mean to use clear vinyl which is clear and a real no no.

You do know that there is no pressure in the drain line right? The PE stuff is what you should be using although I don't like colored because you can't see the water in it. That goes for brine line too. Which is also PE.

You should write on the label what BLFC and DLFC they installed since they didn't.

To change the salt dose requires you to change the K of capacity number accordingly. You don't set the salt dose per cuft, you set the brine refill minutes for the total number of lbs. at 3 lbs/gallon of refill water. And if you are correct with the 30,400, you round the 30,400 up to 31 K and refill for that amount and round up any fraction of time.

I sure don't like how far from the wall the softener is because of the over sized (1.25" valve) and extremely physically large 7000 valve.

[ditttohead]

Many of our dealers are partial to Funny Pipe http://www.homedepot.com/buy/toro-10...ipe-53338.html It is also handy to have around for sprinkler repair work. instead of hard plumbing sprinkler heads, use this and you will never have to worry bout breaking pipe under ground again due to lawnmower hits, kids playing etc. It is pressure rated, bends easily, and uses the barb fitting avalable at the big DIY HD store.

[John Vegas]

Yes, I use something similar for my drip irrigation in Las Vegas (in fact I think it is the same things in the generic version, and the "pipe" that I used for the Culligan while it was leaking (I would fill up a bucket of water while the Culligan was in use and was leaking, so at least I captured some of the leaking for irrigation water). The Funny Pipe does have a terrible tendency to kink, at least with irrigation work.

So now there are four options--PE, vinyl, braided PVC and "Funny Pipe!"

Many of our dealers are partial to Funny Pipe http://www.homedepot.com/buy/toro-10...ipe-53338.html It is also handy to have around for sprinkler repair work. instead of hard plumbing sprinkler heads, use this and you will never have to worry bout breaking pipe under ground again due to lawnmower hits, kids playing etc. It is pressure rated, bends easily, and uses the barb fitting avalable at the big DIY HD store.

[ditttohead]

The funny pipe (only the funny pipe, not the other brands) is a thick walled, fairly rigid tubing that does not kink easily. The other brands kink as soon as you attempt to bend them. I would never recommend the other cheaper brands. Funny pipe is also fairly expensive, probably 3-5 times more expensive than the other junk.

[John Vegas]

Just to keep things simple, here are my current setting from the supplier and my proposed setting in ( ). This is for a 6 lb / cf salt dosage.

1. DF (Display Format) = Gal (Gal)
2. VT (Valve Type) = St2b (St2b)
3. CT (Control Type) = Fd (Fd)
4. NT (Number of Tanks) = 1 (1)
5. C (Capacity) = 40 (26)
6. H (Hardness) = 25 (22) (Note, 25 came from supplier, my water hardness is 18, using 22 as a safety factor)
7. RS (Reserve Selection = SF (SF)
8. SF (Safety Factor) = 10 (10)
9. RC (Fixed Reserve Capacity = 0 (0)
10. CR (Variable Reserve) = 0 (0)
11. DO (Day Override) = 94 (15) (Note: Strange it was set to 94, I would have just set it to OFF)
12. RT (Regeneration Time) = 2:00 (2:00)
13. BW (Backwash) = 10 (10)
14. BD (Brine Draw) = 60 (60)
15. BW (Backwash) = 0 (0)
16. RR (Rapid Rinse) = 5 (5)
17. BF (Brine Fill) = 16 (8)
18. FM (Flow Meter Type) = t0.7 (t0.7)

This all assume a 3 lb/cf salt dose and a BLFC of .25 (confirmed today). If I DO make programming changes, when do you make them? right before or after a regeneration cycle or do you change the programming when the softener is getting close to a regen, change the settings, then regen?

Comments? Thanks, JS

[ditttohead]

Setting changes can be made anytime, just press and release the regen button when you are done reprogramming it and it will regeenrate tonight, resetting all the calcs to thenew programming. Try the low salt for at least a few months. It will work for most, but not all people. You have a considerable reserve with your settings so this will maintain slightly higher quality than a true 3 pounds per cu. ft. system. The real problems with ultra low salting come when people program it too tightly, leaving very little reserve or even running the system hard occassionally. I posted a picture of the 7000 with the 61601 90 degrees attached. These can be used to bring your valve in much closer to the wall. And ignore the one naysayer who hates the 7000, it is one of our best sellers as it nearly eliminates the potenital problems of flow restrictions on the extremely rare occassion that every fixture in the house is being used at the same time. It is in no way "oversized", it is properly sized.

[Gary Slusser]

I asked my supplier to supply me some more resin to put in the tank, so I wll be able to sleep at night

I know there is no pressure in the line. Lets beat this drainage line horse to death. The supplier sent vinyl black tubing, NOT polyethylene (PE as you call it). I was thinking about using the braided PVC that they sell at the big box stores and that was installed on the old Culligan. It seems like the braided PVC will not kink nearly as easily at vinyl. Regarding PE, I could not find it locally in 1/2" ID dimension. The brine line is also not PE, but it seems to be black vinyl.

I included some pics of each for reference. Is the braided PVC something good to use? The black vinyl seems cheap and it seems like it tends to kink really easily.

Your salt dose programing looks good to me although I didn't check the math.

The opaque PE tubing in your pictures is what I suggested but they don't have the right size, but do in the 'black vinyl' 5/8" OD x 1/2" ID. Go somewhere else or order it online.

The Funny Pipe sounds like black PE pipe. It has been used on the east coast for decades. Here it comes in various pressure ratings from 75 psi up to 260 psi. We use it to hang submersible pumps on to like 500+' and for irrigation and under ground water lines. The higher the pressure rating the thicker the wall the stiffer it gets. It's tough stuff but I wouldn't use it for drain line above ground. It is IPS (pipe) and your fittings are for CTS (tubing) as I explained before... The thinner stuff you have may be a much lower pressure rated version which means a thin wall that kinks. The black vinyl may be a thin walled low pressure rated PVC.

[Gary Slusser]

I posted a picture of the 7000 with the 61601 90 degrees attached. These can be used to bring your valve in much closer to the wall. And ignore the one naysayer who hates the 7000, it is one of our best sellers as it nearly eliminates the potenital problems of flow restrictions on the extremely rare occassion that every fixture in the house is being used at the same time. It is in no way "oversized", it is properly sized.

You should take a picture from the side instead of the front. Is there a meter on that valve?

What a PIA it would be to plumb the thing if the water line was below or coming it from either side.

What is the retail price of those elongated elbows?

You talk like the only part of a softener is the control valve. If the house has smaller than 1.25" water line, the 7000 is overkill and only you are now changing the subject to "flow restriction" instead of staying with the original subject of overrunning the resin's ability to soften the water. That is a function of the resin, not the control valve.

[ditttohead]

You should take a picture from the side instead of the front. Is there a meter on that valve?

What a PIA it would be to plumb the thing if the water line was below or coming it from either side.

What is the retail price of those elongated elbows?

You talk like the only part of a softener is the control valve. If the house has smaller than 1.25" water line, the 7000 is overkill and only you are now changing the subject to "flow restriction" instead of staying with the original subject of overrunning the resin's ability to soften the water. That is a function of the resin, not the control valve.

LOL, "is there a meter on that valve?" hehehehe, your true knowlwedge is showing again. Please click on the link below for details of how a 7000 is assembled and where the meter is.

[Gary Slusser]

Well I asked because in the link you have in your signature that says about rebuilding a SOFTENER but only shows rebuilding a 7000 STX, you show where to connect a meter cable "if your valve has a meter", and there is no cable or you didn't connect it. But then at the end of the video, I guess as an after thought, you show how to remove and replace a meter turbine with no mention of a cable.

It's the same video that you used the special Fleck tool in while saying it isn't needed.

And the same video where you prealigned a part but didn't show how. You also mentioned the difficulty in this or that but then insist the 7000 is easy to rebuild.

You should remember that the people here that will use the video have never done it before and some have never done anything like rebuilding a control valve before. Or aren't those the people you are doing the video for?

BTW, while I'm here, in 25 years I never saw a leaking o-ring that wasn't originally installed incorrectly, and that was very few and usually the leak was the cause of the valve needing repair, but you state to change every o-ring on the valve for "only a couple dollars" each.

I think that is not necessary unless the o-ring was not installed correctly or shows damage, and replacing good o-rings simply increases cost with no owner benefit.

And you never mention any caution of damaging an o-ring when taking it out or off or installing one. Or anything about any lubricant if needed or not and many DIYers will probably have a question about those things.

I probably should make these true knowledge comments of mine in the comments section of the videos you are doing.

Do you plan on doing a video of an actual rebuild of a softener?

Oh yes, how about a rebuild of the Fleck 5800? And see if you can keep those short fat fingers out of the way.

[John Vegas]

Guys:

If I wanted to add a few cups of resin to my existing softener, if I unscrew the valve, will it pull out the distributor tube? I know it is probably not necessary to add the resin and I probably won't worry about it after a few days, but more curious if the distributor tube usually pulls out when you disconnect the control valve.


Also, I didn't lube up the washers on the quick connects, I forgot to do that. Do you think I should disconnect and put on some silicone lubricant? The 7000SXT valve came pre-lubricated (well at least it seemed to be), so I didn't add anything not did I add any lubricant to the top of the tank (some sites indicate you should use vegetable oil on the top of the tank).

JS

[John Vegas]

Any idea why the last two pages of this thread were deleted?

JS

[Terry]

Dittohead wanted me to delete some stuff, and while I was at it, I was looking at the name calling, "by several of the guys", it seemed better to go back to the beginning of the name calling and just delete it.

It should be all about clean water. That's all!