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Thread: Las Vegas Water Softener Selection

  1. #31
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I don't know what you are calling flared fittings other than the black plastic nuts that screw onto the back of the valve. They are Culligan parts and are installed on the soldered copper. All brands of valves have their own proprietary plumbing fittings. So you unsolder the copper and solder on the new fittings for your brand and model valve. Or, use brass or plastic push or compression type fittings instead of soldering.

    BTW, you can buy a soldering kit from the big box stores or online for $40-$75. And you get to keep it when finished. You can learn to solder with about 30 minutes of practice. To do that you can find free videos and instructions online.

    Flexible lines like Falcon SS are difficult to get to fit well with your loop plumbing because you can't move it without tearing the wall apart. And they don't hold the softener from being moved if bumped.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
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  2. #32
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Default Flared Fittings

    What I am calling a flared fitting is the trumpet looking copper thing that was soldered to the 1-inch copper pipe. The black plastic nut you reference is then screwed over the copper "flared" fitting. Maybe I could just line up the new softener and use the existing plastic nut to screw onto the new softener (?). I think the Culligan uses some type of flared plastic fitting in order for the copper flared thing to seat properly. The Culligan has no copper attached to it, only plastic.

    JS


    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    I don't know what you are calling flared fittings other than the black plastic nuts that screw onto the back of the valve. They are Culligan parts and are installed on the soldered copper. All brands of valves have their own proprietary plumbing fittings. So you unsolder the copper and solder on the new fittings for your brand and model valve. Or, use brass or plastic push or compression type fittings instead of soldering.

    BTW, you can buy a soldering kit from the big box stores or online for $40-$75. And you get to keep it when finished. You can learn to solder with about 30 minutes of practice. To do that you can find free videos and instructions online.

    Flexible lines like Falcon SS are difficult to get to fit well with your loop plumbing because you can't move it without tearing the wall apart. And they don't hold the softener from being moved if bumped.

  3. #33
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    The metal part soldered onto or otherwise attached to your plumbing and the nut are Culligan parts. All other brands and models of valves will have their own version of those parts.

    The distance between your plumbing ends after removing the Culligan parts will probably not fit another brand and model of valve and have to be 'adjusted'. Also, very possibly their height above the floor will vary from one brand and model of valve to another and that will have to be adjusted too.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #34
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Ok, here is a dumb question. How do you "hard pipe" a water softener? It seems like the Flecks come with threaded fitting that are intended to connect a flex line to. My softener is located in an out of the way location and not subject to being bumped, so I was thinking flex lines were ok. If bumping is a problem, I though a pair of earthquake straps for a hot water heater would stabilize it as well. Anyway, thanks all for your help.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    The metal part soldered onto or otherwise attached to your plumbing and the nut are Culligan parts. All other brands and models of valves will have their own version of those parts.

    The distance between your plumbing ends after removing the Culligan parts will probably not fit another brand and model of valve and have to be 'adjusted'. Also, very possibly their height above the floor will vary from one brand and model of valve to another and that will have to be adjusted too.

  5. #35
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Here is a thought.
    If you are going to try and change out the Culligan valve for a Fleck valve you should take the Culligan valve off first to make sure that the thread count and shape will work for the fleck valve.
    Culligan likes to use a square thread while Fleck uses a pipe thread.
    Also Culligan uses more times than not a brine flow control in the top of the float assembly while fleck has theirs in the line at the valve body.

  6. #36
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    I intend to buy an entire new system. I don't think any valve will fit a Culligan tank. Anyone want a used Culligan that needs a new seal pack? CHEAP!


    JS


    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan View Post
    Here is a thought.
    If you are going to try and change out the Culligan valve for a Fleck valve you should take the Culligan valve off first to make sure that the thread count and shape will work for the fleck valve.
    Culligan likes to use a square thread while Fleck uses a pipe thread.
    Also Culligan uses more times than not a brine flow control in the top of the float assembly while fleck has theirs in the line at the valve body.

  7. #37
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    That is going to be a tough sale.

    You will do great with a new system, parts availability will be much easier in the future. All of the Fleck valves have solder connectors available. The 5600 style has 3/4" - 1-1/4", the 7000 has 3/4" to 1-1/2" available. You could use the Falcon x John Guest Name:  water-heater-flex-fip-ptc-18.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  18.6 KB with the MIP connectors that are standard on most Fleck systems as well. Good luck!

  8. #38
    DIY Junior Member Gestetner's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I can attest to the fact that Culligan tanks use a different thread than "regular" tanks. I had a Culligan "Fleck" 7000 1 1/4" valve system on a 12x65 Total Home system with 2 cuft resin and 1 cuft carbon. (They told me it is the valve unit used for the Platinum Plus series of softeners.) Long story short, Culligan and I had a severe disagreement and legal frivolity ensued. After resolving that difference of opinion, I replaced my entire system with separate softener and carbon tanks, using a Fleck 7000SXT for the carbon and Fleck 7000XTR for the softener.

    I had attempted to reuse my Culligan valve but my new water guy insisted on using a new tank because he said the labor to clean and refill the old Culligan one would have eaten up any savings. The price was right so I didn't argue. Turns out that the down tube which the Culligan valve uses is a different size and didn't mate up with the one he'd ordered for the new tank. He said he couldn't get the old Culligan tube out so the tank got chewed up getting it out. (Unfortunately, he didn't figure out that the top basket just unscrews and then the tube comes right out. ARGH!)

    My Culligan Fleck valve does not screw onto the top of the tank. Instead, a threaded insert screws into the top of the tank and then the valve sits on that with an o-ring. The insert and the valve then have a collar that clamps around them to hold them together.

    Unfortunately, it was only at this point that my independent water guy goes to put the old valve on and discovers that the Culligan insert has different threads and won't screw into the "industry standard" tank. He said that he contacted his wholesalers and that no one made an insert with industry standard threads to use with the Culligan valve. That required me to spend money on a new valve. Frustrating, but not as bad as it could have been because I got a good price on the new valve, a new warranty, and the availability of replacement parts.

    Side Note:

    I do have a beautiful Culligan Fleck 7000 1 1/4" valve sitting in my garage. It was installed in 2008, sat unused on plumbing bypass for a while, and then was recently tested four times a few months ago. If someone ever needs one but doesn't want to deal with the C-word people, I could be convinced easily to part with it for a reasonable cost.

    I would NEVER do business with the C-People again.

  9. #39
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    I wonder if that valve would fit my Culligan tank? Does it have a good seal pack? PM me if you want to send me a price, I might be interested (you can take a trip to Vegas to drop it off too

    JS


    Quote Originally Posted by Gestetner View Post
    Unfortunately, I can attest to the fact that Culligan tanks use a different thread than "regular" tanks. I had a Culligan "Fleck" 7000 1 1/4" valve system on a 12x65 Total Home system with 2 cuft resin and 1 cuft carbon. (They told me it is the valve unit used for the Platinum Plus series of softeners.) Long story short, Culligan and I had a severe disagreement and legal frivolity ensued. After resolving that difference of opinion, I replaced my entire system with separate softener and carbon tanks, using a Fleck 7000SXT for the carbon and Fleck 7000XTR for the softener.

    I had attempted to reuse my Culligan valve but my new water guy insisted on using a new tank because he said the labor to clean and refill the old Culligan one would have eaten up any savings. The price was right so I didn't argue. Turns out that the down tube which the Culligan valve uses is a different size and didn't mate up with the one he'd ordered for the new tank. He said he couldn't get the old Culligan tube out so the tank got chewed up getting it out. (Unfortunately, he didn't figure out that the top basket just unscrews and then the tube comes right out. ARGH!)

    My Culligan Fleck valve does not screw onto the top of the tank. Instead, a threaded insert screws into the top of the tank and then the valve sits on that with an o-ring. The insert and the valve then have a collar that clamps around them to hold them together.

    Unfortunately, it was only at this point that my independent water guy goes to put the old valve on and discovers that the Culligan insert has different threads and won't screw into the "industry standard" tank. He said that he contacted his wholesalers and that no one made an insert with industry standard threads to use with the Culligan valve. That required me to spend money on a new valve. Frustrating, but not as bad as it could have been because I got a good price on the new valve, a new warranty, and the availability of replacement parts.

    Side Note:

    I do have a beautiful Culligan Fleck 7000 1 1/4" valve sitting in my garage. It was installed in 2008, sat unused on plumbing bypass for a while, and then was recently tested four times a few months ago. If someone ever needs one but doesn't want to deal with the C-word people, I could be convinced easily to part with it for a reasonable cost.

    I would NEVER do business with the C-People again.

  10. #40
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    I saw the solder connections, but I dare not try to solder while something is connected to plastic, I am sure to melt the bypass! LOL JS

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    That is going to be a tough sale.

    You will do great with a new system, parts availability will be much easier in the future. All of the Fleck valves have solder connectors available. The 5600 style has 3/4" - 1-1/4", the 7000 has 3/4" to 1-1/2" available. You could use the Falcon x John Guest Name:  water-heater-flex-fip-ptc-18.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  18.6 KB with the MIP connectors that are standard on most Fleck systems as well. Good luck!

  11. #41
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    Default Falcon

    It seems very difficult to find a 1-inch push on fitting. Loads of 3/4-inch. GRRR!

    JS

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    That is going to be a tough sale.

    You will do great with a new system, parts availability will be much easier in the future. All of the Fleck valves have solder connectors available. The 5600 style has 3/4" - 1-1/4", the 7000 has 3/4" to 1-1/2" available. You could use the Falcon x John Guest Name:  water-heater-flex-fip-ptc-18.jpg
Views: 295
Size:  18.6 KB with the MIP connectors that are standard on most Fleck systems as well. Good luck!

  12. #42
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Vegas View Post
    It seems very difficult to find a 1-inch push on fitting. Loads of 3/4-inch. GRRR!

    JS
    It is a newer part, call the guys that have the 3/4" and see if they can get you the 1" version. Falcon part number is PTC1JG-1N and it includes nylon nuts which work better on plastic plumbing connectors.
    Last edited by ditttohead; 10-29-2012 at 03:49 PM.

  13. #43
    DIY Member John Vegas's Avatar
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    So I have a few options and seeking votes!!!

    1. use the new Falcon part with the 1" push connection and then 1" threaded to 1" 7000 valve.

    2. Use push fitting to transition pipe to 1" threaded, and use a 1" supply line (on each end) to connect pipe to 7000 valve.

    3. Use push fitting to transition pipe to 3/4" threaded and use a 3/4" supply line (on each end) to connect to 3/4" 7000 valve.

    I like 3, but worried that the transition to 3/4" might restrict the flow. Plus, 3/4" supply lines are easy to find. Option 2 is second. I REALLY like option 1, but I don't know if I can get those supply line (plumbing supply houses are such a PITA to deal with for homeowners for obvious reasons).

    JS

  14. #44
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Industry standard tank threads are 2.5" x 8 threads per inch. They are not pipe threads, they are straight threads and seal with an o-ring. Industry standard valves are 2.5" x 8 threads per inch straight threads.

    To unsolder the Culligan parts from the plumbing, you wrap a wet rag around the plastic part ad heat the soldered joint, take it off and immerse it in water to cool it. You can do the same wet rag thing for any copper soldered joint that you do not want to remove or heat up.

    You remove the control valve or its by pass valve from the plumbing connectors to do any soldering.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #45
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    http://www.falconflex.com/ Give them a call. Great group, we sell a lot of theor products and the quality is probably the best in the business. Good folks over there. They should be able to direct you to a company that can help you out. Definetly otion number 1.

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