(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Softener vs Conditioner

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Greensburg, MD
    Posts
    29

    Default Softener vs Conditioner

    Hello to all,
    We are trying to mainly get rid of (Manganese 0.236,) Iron 0.0100mg PH 7.34mg and the Hardness is 12grams.Instead of using a salt softener after a plastic cistern Tank, will a flex7000 filter/ Conditioner Head with Birm take out most of that 12gms before it (if replaced) reaches this Tank? (no-psi) until well-pump kicks on.Trying to save on water as far as Regenerate or Backwashing.What does 8% crosslinked Resin mean? can other Resins co-mix,with Birm!!Sorry about stupid writing!Was told you need positive pressure all-the-time for a soft. or a Filter. Thanks to all.

  2. #2
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    A correctly sized water softener is all you need.

    On your own well, you don't need any type of special resin, regular regular mesh works very well for many years and costs the least.

    Birm does not soften water and is used in water filters that backwash.

    Conditioners, called "salt free softeners", do not remove hardness, iron or manganese.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #3
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    2,942

    Default

    Sounds like he is pumping low yield into a holding tank and trying to avoid using extra water that a softener needs to backwash.

    I would like a better description of what you have for pumps, tank size and if you know the gpm yield on your source.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Greensburg, MD
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Hello, Yes we have a low-producing well,after the first draw 70gals we only get 1gallon after about 1 hour,so trying to save as much as we can! I think it is a half-horse,80ft well.(tank500gal)Positive pressure all-the-time for a soft. or a Filter???Can it work like a in-line housing or does it need a 2nd bladder tank? Thank-you.

  5. #5
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    2,942

    Default

    Your water is hard and there is some iron there as well but judging from the yield on your well I think installing any backwashing filter is eventually going to cause a problem. I'm not a big fan of these things but Watts (www.watts.com) and a couple of other manufacturers do sell filtration that is non backwashing. the downside is that it's expensive and you need to change out the entire media when the filter is exhausted. Stay away from magnetic or radio wave technology or any of those things you hear advertised on the radio like sleazy water and rip you off rod. they don't work, can't work, never work and only serve to lighten your wallet. If you were considering any of those go here first please www.chem1.com/CQ
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  6. #6
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    A large correctly sized softener programed for high water and salt efficiency will probably not use more than a quarter of the 500 gal tank volume once every 7-9 days. And a regular/normal size softener (family of 3-4, no large tubs or showers or body sprays) usually not more than like 50-70 gallons total; once every 7-9 days.

    And that will be during the night, hours before the family would get up and use water and if needed, they could reduce their normal water use volume that morning by showering the night before and doing laundry on another day instead of the day after the regeneration.

    I'm not understanding the positive pressure part... Any softener or iron filter has to be plumbed with pressurized water. That's after a pressure tank. And unless that 500 gal tank is pressurized, which I would advise against, you need a pump and pressure tank after the tank and before the softener/filter. Or a submersible pump in the 500 gal tank and a pressure tank after the tank, before a softener/filter.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by truckkerjoe View Post
    Hello to all,
    We are trying to mainly get rid of (Manganese 0.236,) Iron 0.0100mg PH 7.34mg and the Hardness is 12grams.Instead of using a salt softener after a plastic cistern Tank, will a flex7000 filter/ Conditioner Head with Birm take out most of that 12gms before it (if replaced) reaches this Tank? (no-psi) until well-pump kicks on.Trying to save on water as far as Regenerate or Backwashing.What does 8% crosslinked Resin mean? can other Resins co-mix,with Birm!!Sorry about stupid writing!Was told you need positive pressure all-the-time for a soft. or a Filter. Thanks to all.
    No, your questions are not stupid but, n fact, very important.

    Maybe this will help.
    http://www.apswater.com/article.asp?...n_do_you_need?

    Never mix BIRM with resins. A few kinds of media can be mixed with resins such as tannin resins. Some companies mix carbon with resin but i am not in favor with it.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Greensburg, MD
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Thanks to all you I''am learning so much.When oxygen and Manganese sits it will precipitate alot,we get it in the toilet and washing Man.and shower.Wanted to try the BIRM?but hardness is 196 or 12grms?will look into all resins?My water man said to place a 5600 economizer with 2 solenoid valves and inlet/fill line so when well-pump starts it will not dead-head!! the non(psi) line comming from the ground/well.Something like that? We were just thinking that most of that 12grms(hardness) wound get eliminated with BIRM and backwashing maybe 7 to 10 days thus saving water???instead of a softener and salt set-up.Anyways I found a forum that really helps people.ALL you pros are lifesavers.

  9. #9
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,707
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Birm, or any other manganese dioxide based media will do nothing for hardness. It will usually remove iron and manganese assuming their is enough oxygen in the water.

Similar Threads

  1. air conditioner question
    By Cookie in forum HVAC Heating & Cooling
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-01-2011, 10:46 AM
  2. Whole house water conditioner?
    By Bustergordon in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-12-2010, 07:02 AM
  3. Natural gas air conditioner ???
    By WV Hillbilly in forum HVAC Heating & Cooling
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-27-2010, 09:40 AM
  4. Air Conditioner myth
    By MayClaire01 in forum HVAC Heating & Cooling
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 09-18-2009, 01:08 PM
  5. Water conditioner or softener?
    By shall in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-04-2007, 09:30 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •