Texas Wellman
In the Trades
Fairly common well problem...H2S...rotten egg smell......
What is the best treatment? Tested at 1-2 ppm.
What is the best treatment? Tested at 1-2 ppm.
Getting rid of H2S
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ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
There are many treatment methods. Common methods are as simple as a catlytic GAC or a KDF 85 backwashing filter, to chlorine injection / contact tank / GAC, or manganese dioxide ore media backwashing systems, simple aeration, etc. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages and each person who does water treatment will have their preferred method. I lean toward the manganese dioxide based medias mainly because they work almost every time, are extremely simple, and they also clarify the water, remove iron, and manganese. They have a disadvantage in that they need excessive backwash flow rates, and are slightly expensive. KDF85 also works very similarly to Mag Ox medias, but is even more expensive. Catalytic carbon works fairly well, it works great when combined with an oxidizing agent and a contact tank. What other water issues are there? What kind of equipment is alrewady installed? Do they have an atmospheric storage tank? Many factors will come into play to determine the "best" treatment method.
Hope this helps,
Hope this helps,
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njbasecamp
New Member
@dittohead
How would one go about sting up a Non-Backwash KDF-85 Tank. I see a few of these on the market and I like the idea of not pumping everything up hill to my septic or yard from my basement. I see things like the Rhino whole house filter that uses KDF-85 and gets ~300,000 gal life with an ok 7GPM flow rate. I dont need all the stuff that come with a system like this as I already have a GAC tank with BB20 pre and post filters. I just want to buy a non-backwash up-flow tank with KDF-85 get about 7-12gpm.
How would one go about sting up a Non-Backwash KDF-85 Tank. I see a few of these on the market and I like the idea of not pumping everything up hill to my septic or yard from my basement. I see things like the Rhino whole house filter that uses KDF-85 and gets ~300,000 gal life with an ok 7GPM flow rate. I dont need all the stuff that come with a system like this as I already have a GAC tank with BB20 pre and post filters. I just want to buy a non-backwash up-flow tank with KDF-85 get about 7-12gpm.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
A simple KDF 85 upflow tank works fairly well and is very popular in a few other industries, outside of the potable water market. A simple in/out tank w/ bypass, a heavy underbed, and some KDF85 is all that would beneeded. I have a KDF tank on myown house, it is KDF55 since it is more for municipal that well water. it is a downflow with backwash, but upflow can work well. My only concern with KDF in an upflow configuration is that it gets a good flow on occassion. An 8" tank should get a 10 GPM flow for a few minutes every few weeks to be sure it is moved around adequately to give it a good, long life. I can hook you up with a company that sells these, just send me an IM if you are unable to locate one.
Texas Wellman
In the Trades
Explain some of the acronyms for us treatment challenged people please? KDF = ???
I have used the catalytic carbon with air oxidation with fair to good results.
I don't have a specific case, just in general.
I have used the catalytic carbon with air oxidation with fair to good results.
I don't have a specific case, just in general.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
KDF is the name of a media. It is copper and zinc in different proportions. KDF85 is primarily used for well applications and is effective at iron and hydrogen sulfide removal when applied correctly. It is also very effective at chloramine reduction (not a concern on a well(, heavy metals removel like lead and mercury, and a host ot other contaminants. http://www.kdfft.com/ Since it is manufactured out of pure copper and zinc, the price fluctuates with the market price of those metals. As you might have guessed, the price has nearly tripled in the past 5 years. KDF will react with hydrogen sulfide and form insoluble copper sulfide. This copper sulfide is simply backwashed off the kdf85 media. It will also remove up to 98% mercury, lead, nickel, copper, chromium, and other dissolved metals. Check out their website for details, this is a highly effective media. It also has a bad reputation, but that is primarily due to its misuse or improper application. It must be aggressively backwashed regularly. In my own house, I have a large KDF tank filtering all of my water, it only backwashes every 15-20 days, and no problems for over ten years.
Kinetic Degradation Fluxion.
Dittohead, you have obviously had better luck than I have with KDF. Yes, it has its place in water treatment but my attempts to apply it to H2S ahve not turned out very well. With any backwashing device, an incredible high rate of backwash flow rate is required according to tank diameter. Without consistently and frequently lifting the bed, solidification and thus channeling occurs greatly shortening the life of the media. Media replacement becomes expensive and frustrating.
An upflow tank will almost never get the flow rate required to move the bed around unless it is placed in front of the pressure tank with flow restrictor to regulate precise flow rate.
My all-time favorite use for KDF is in smaller refillable cartridges placed ahead of ROs where a whole house sulfur system is foregone, unavailable or price prohibitive. A small test valve is placed following the filter to determine media life. here flow rate and channeling is not an issue.
KDF is also used in shower filters as it is not affected by higher temps as carbon is. It could even be placed after a water heater.
How wide is your tank and what valve do you have on it?
Dittohead, you have obviously had better luck than I have with KDF. Yes, it has its place in water treatment but my attempts to apply it to H2S ahve not turned out very well. With any backwashing device, an incredible high rate of backwash flow rate is required according to tank diameter. Without consistently and frequently lifting the bed, solidification and thus channeling occurs greatly shortening the life of the media. Media replacement becomes expensive and frustrating.
An upflow tank will almost never get the flow rate required to move the bed around unless it is placed in front of the pressure tank with flow restrictor to regulate precise flow rate.
My all-time favorite use for KDF is in smaller refillable cartridges placed ahead of ROs where a whole house sulfur system is foregone, unavailable or price prohibitive. A small test valve is placed following the filter to determine media life. here flow rate and channeling is not an issue.
KDF is also used in shower filters as it is not affected by higher temps as carbon is. It could even be placed after a water heater.
How wide is your tank and what valve do you have on it?
DonL
Jack of all trades Master of one
I have found that the best way to get rid of H2S is to get rid of H2O.
That is not the best solution in many cases tho.
Tom Sawyer
In the Trades
I have had success with KDF but backwash flow rate is high and typically water treatment equipment is applied to well systems so the pumps output is a factor. Before going with KDF it is important to make sure the well pump has enough ooomph (technical term because we have been accused of being too scientific here and confusing the posters LOL) to backwash the bed properly.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
ooomph is still a bit technical, can you put that in laymans terms please?
Tom Sawyer
In the Trades
Ok then the Tim Taylor solution "more power"
njbasecamp
New Member
@Dittohead,
Hey I have finally gotten back to this project. I need to get the H2S out of my system when I travel a few days i come home to water that stinks
. I am getting concerned after following up with this thread that my up flow idea is a bad one. I am fine with paying the premium and using the upflow and replacing the media every 1-3years. but i am concerned that ill go away for a few days and come home to a brick of KDF the weak after i put it in. I am thinking I might just put in 2 bb20 in parallel and use KDF cartage style filters I could get 5gpm out of that. it's still a premium cost wise even a bit more then the upflow tank but maybe less work and more manageable. I am thinking i might be stuck in the design faze forever any help moving this along would be great.
Hey I have finally gotten back to this project. I need to get the H2S out of my system when I travel a few days i come home to water that stinks
. I am getting concerned after following up with this thread that my up flow idea is a bad one. I am fine with paying the premium and using the upflow and replacing the media every 1-3years. but i am concerned that ill go away for a few days and come home to a brick of KDF the weak after i put it in. I am thinking I might just put in 2 bb20 in parallel and use KDF cartage style filters I could get 5gpm out of that. it's still a premium cost wise even a bit more then the upflow tank but maybe less work and more manageable. I am thinking i might be stuck in the design faze forever any help moving this along would be great.
Gary Slusser
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Is your odor in the hot water, cold water or both?
If the odor gets stronger after no water use for a few days, that says you have a bacteria problem.
If the odor gets stronger after no water use for a few days, that says you have a bacteria problem.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
Dual BB is a last ditch alternative. I am not a fan of this design for a lot of reason, too many to go into here, but I sell a lot of this design. From a technical standpoint, it has many flaws.
Gary said it perfectly, if the odor is consistent, it is easily treatable by conventional means. If it is intermittent, you may have bigger issues. I would start with a few quick tests. Be sure to test for odors in the hot water vs. the cold water. A lot of "rotten egg smell" can come from the water heater. Check that first and let us know what you come up with.
Sorry for the delay in responding, I was in Florida all week on business. BTW, the weather sucks there.
Gary said it perfectly, if the odor is consistent, it is easily treatable by conventional means. If it is intermittent, you may have bigger issues. I would start with a few quick tests. Be sure to test for odors in the hot water vs. the cold water. A lot of "rotten egg smell" can come from the water heater. Check that first and let us know what you come up with.
Sorry for the delay in responding, I was in Florida all week on business. BTW, the weather sucks there.
njbasecamp
New Member
Oder is defiantly the cause of high iron and manganese just under 2ppm iron and just over 1ppm manganese. its in cold and hot water. The standard style water softener usually generally enough to keep the H2s at bay except when i am away for a few day 3 or more. I would like to get away from the salt water softener an go to a descale-er mostly environmental I live on the edge of a managed watershed boundary and it be nice to not have salt backwash eventually run off into the streams near the house. I use a RO for drinking water and it has a KDF 85 GAC BB Slim and it is great so I know the KDF works with my water. I think Ill add the Upflow KDF that I originaly wanted to go with and see if that lasts if it holds up for a year then I think it would still be worth it in my situation. ill just replace the media yearly... thou I cant imagine that ill use close to 300,000 gal in that year thats what I figured 15-18 lbs of KDF should last? any and all advice is appreciated...
Odor does not cause iron, high or otherwise, or manganese. Iron may cause odor problems, however. A regular softener does not handle H2S. Sulfur passes right through a softener almost completely...very little effect in reduction. I would discourage and upflow KDF unless your tank is 4" in diameter and about three feet tall. But the your flow would be restricted. AVOID an upflow KDF filter. How many inches of media would you be using? KDF must be backwashed regularly or replaced often.
Gary Slusser
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Odor does not cause high iron or manganese and high iron and manganese does not cause odor.
And since the odor gets worse after no water use for a few days, you have a bacteria problem and need to use a disinfectant to kill it. That will also oxidize the iron and manganese so you'll need a filter to remove the oxidized stuff (dirt) and the disinfectant if you use chlorine
I would not go with an upflow or downflow KDF filter. And "no salt" softeners do not remove hardness, iron or manganese and usually don't do too well at removing hardness scale either.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
antiscale systems MUST have the iron, manganese, and copper removed (among other contaminants) or the media will foul almost immediately. Anti scale medias will not produce softer water, they can (sometimes) lessen the scaling issues. Your idea of an upflow KDF system is not terrible, it is common in certain commercial applications. For a residential application, I would highly recommend an 8" tank with 57 pounds of kdf, and be sure to run the water through the tank at no less than 10 GPM every few days for 10 minutes. This high flow rate is required to keep the bed from fouling. As long as you do that, you should be fine. KDF has a high failure rate primarily due to the lack of regular backwashing. In an upflow design, a flow rate of 25-30 GPM per square foot is the only way to ensure the media is being "backwashed" properly.
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