I have angered the plumbing gods....

[TonyBagadonutz]

I have angered the plumbing gods....what other explanation is there for what has happened this MONTH:
- water tank cracked ~ replaced old 40 gal w/75 gal
- leaky faucet STOPPED leaking..or working for that matter. 6" OC faucets virutally impossible to find - replace sink AND faucets
- main sewer line decides to take a vacation...pay to have it snaked
- 1/2" supply line on SECOND FLOOR decides to BURST...water is pouring out of light fixtures and even door jambs.


I have ticked off the plumbing gods.

[Terry]

Yes, I believe you have ticked off the plumbing gods.

That's a lot to happen in one month.

One thing I would look for, is a new water meter put in by the city.
Sometimes they replace the old stuff with check valved meters when they are doing their upgrades.

If they did, then the expansion that would have been in the system when the water heated, would have been able to back up into the city mains.

With the check valve, it doesn't happen.
Expansion tanks help that.

A similar thing happened to me.
My water heater failed twice after the meter was replaced.
The second time I figured out what must have happened and replaced the water heater, and installed an expansion tank.
That tank has been working fine for years now.

[toolaholic]

that's a good heads up! it would be wise for the city to put a door knob note
of the change out, and possible failures

[TonyBagadonutz]

I wish I could point the finger at the city, but my meter is inside my basement ~ the city reads it from a black box outside.

Can you tell me more about expansion tanks? I have never seen one on a HWH, on boiler/HWBB systems yes.

I'm just glad we were home when the cap burst.

[Cass]

no message

[Cass]

Oh how you have angered them. They are moving in today.

Here is an expansion tank set up.

[master plumber mark]

a little heads up

if you have recently raised the water pressure

change those plumbing hoses to the washing machine

http://www.statefarm.com/consumer/vh...s/washmach.htm




put in a PRV valve or things could really get ugly

[TonyBagadonutz]

Thanks for the pic Cass...do those exp. tanks come in different sizes, capacities, etc?

if you have recently raised the water pressure

change those plumbing hoses to the washing machine

put in a PRV valve or things could really get ugly

The water pressure was not changed by me - I do not think the city would raise it. Our supply does not have a pressure regulator.

I had considered changing the washing machine hoses, just because...because there was a mineral build-up on them and it got disturbed(removed hoses) when the main line was snaked. I plan on changing them, but an debating the "standard hose" vs. "no burst" style - not so much price as longevity. The hoses I have were put on in Jan. '03 (when we bought this house).

You mention a PRV in relation to the washing machine?

[master plumber mark]

cass.....please excuse me but

that is about the worst set up example for
an expansion tank I have ever seen....

putting that tank in horisontailly like that is a
flood just waiting to happen....


either the copper will crack becasue of the
leverage of weight from the water and stress
or the tank will give at the joint..... but something is
bound to happen sometime down the road...



we either stand them straight up or down and
install some sort of support or leg down to either the
flat top of the heater or to the floor to hold the
3 gallons of WEIGHT that is always usually in them....

we have even strapped them to the side of the heater
but we never leave them dangling out in the wind like that..

that should at least have a piece of pvc or copper like a
support from heater up to the tank.....

or a piece of strappping hodingthe weight from the rafters
above it but for christs sake something to hold that constant dead weight...


the only good thing I can say about that set up is I
aint going to be the fellow paying the bill for the water
dameages that are bound to happen some day...

I dont need any more of those kind of troubles in my life...

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The pressure reduceing valve was meant forthe whole house
call the water conpany and ask them to test your water pressure
If it is above about 95psi during the day,, I would suggest one...

[Cass]

Mark your right, but that is the only pic I could find online that would post, it is not one of my installs, as I would install up or down also as you said. I should have noted it, my bad.

They come in 2 basic sizes small (40 gal. and under tanks) and large (50 gal. and above). I think the next size up is for 120 gal. not positive.

[TonyBagadonutz]

that is about the worst set up example for
an expansion tank I have ever seen....

That is the way I see them all the time here in NJ - just protruding out, mostly unsupported. Your opinion is that 24#'s is too much dead weight? (Not that I disagree, I just don't know what a soldered joint can support)
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The pressure reduceing valve was meant forthe whole house
call the water conpany and ask them to test your water pressure
If it is above about 95psi during the day,, I would suggest one...

I will call the water co. and get a pressure reading.

Just to clarify the bursting incident...what happened was, a 1/2" cap(sweat) came off a dead ended line that will supply the shower/tub set up. The cap had been in place since about the same date of the HWH swap out(12/4). I had JUST turned off the water in the shower I was using (1st flr.) and heard what sounded like a rainstorm from upstairs - 2nd flr. bth is above 1st flr bth).

I am very surprised that this cap held for almost 2 weeks before quitting.
Now that you know the back story, do you (collectively) still think an expansion tank and pressure test will be neccessary?

Incidentally, the faucet quit on 12/4 also...the day AFTER the HWH job was completed. Is there some correlation here?

Here is the actual timeline:
12/2 - HWH leaks
12/3 - HWH replaced
12/4 - faucet quits
12/4 - sink and faucets replaced
Week of 12/4 - 12/11 - Working on 2nd flr bath; connect DWV to jacuzzi, run supply lines from (under) 2nd flr into wall cavity (10' 1/2" , 4 90's, 2 45's, 2 caps)
12/15 - sewer clogged
12/17 - sewer snaked
12/17 - 1/2" cap quits (cold water line)

[master plumber mark]

you have got a plumbing demon in your home

my professional opinion is to go get a preist and

have the place excorsized .....


I dont know what they charge....

lol


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as far as that expansion tank, however they do it

elsewhere is ok with me, because I am not the guy that

is going to have to explain to my insurance company

why they got to cough up 5-10 k to clean up a flooded house....


I mean , its just common sense,
you support all the 3 inch pvc
drain pipes in a home with strapping every 6 feet or so...thats code..


If and when that Expansion tank becomes water logged
it will weigh up to 35 -50 lbs... hanging on horizontal
just hanging there with nothing to support the weight


and what do you think will happen at those joiints??

[Gary Swart]

The Watts tanks have illustrations on how the expansion tanks can be mounted. The make a point of the support necesarry to hold the tank. They will work OK when installed like the one in the photo Cass posted, but as pointed out, it must be supported. Mine hangs down and is straped on both sides of the tee to a floor joist. I think that's the best way to install one because it is really easy to support it