(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Broken Waste Pipe - Repairing it and looking for answers in Vancouver

  1. #1
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Broken Waste Pipe - Repairing it and looking for answers in Vancouver

    So my Journey Man called me yesterday to let me know we had an issue at my house. I was out quoting a new project and David was returning some gear to the house. He noticed a strange drip on some Ram Board that we had stored UNDER my backyard covered deck. I did say UNDER. He called me and send a few pictures. I viewed them, made a 180 for home and asked him to start ripping down the soffit material.

    Here is what we found.





    As soon as I say these pictures I zipped back home.

    David had the soffit down by the time I showed up.





    Cont...


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  2. #2
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default



    We found the source of the ooze. A mix of dishwaher water, dish water, spray foam all fighting it's way out the bottom side of this spray foam.





    Cracked right after the coupling.



    I carved out some of the spray foam and used my Japanese Pull saw to cut out the coupling and prep for a repair.



    I thought I might find a belly and perhaps this area was sagged and maybe froze but the pipe was perfectly clean. That's one positive so far.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #3
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    I cut a piece of ABS about 3/16" smaller than my void in the line. Removed the collars from two MJ fittings and stuck them on my short section of 2" ABS pipe. I rolled the ends back like you do when putting on a condom. This part is tough and requires good hand strength to do.





    You can see the left side is flipped back. This is the tricky part and once you get the MJ rubber pieces sitting just right it's time to place the gear clamp collars back on.



    That was the easy part. Now I have to let this wet lumber dry out, and re-install the soffits!

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  4. #4
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Questions.

    I feel like there is a number of potential reasons this happen.

    One I believe that my outside post has settled a good 5/8" and this pulled down the corner of the house. Evidence of this is apperent in my kitchen and I think because the waste line is spray foamed it bent and then snapped at the weakest point.


    I also wonder if it is because I had poor coverage over the bottom side of the waste pipe and perhaps it was a freeze thaw, freeze thaw issue that weaken the ABS pipe.

    I'm shocked at the oouze texture. It's like it became a slim running through the spray foam. I think had the liquids can through as liquids this would have been spotted earlier. Does spray foam mix with water? Weird.

    Any insight would be a help.

    Thanks guys.

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,653

    Default

    Rolling the rubbers back and installing the piece is usually the "easy part". Wrapping the bands around and getting the hose clamps lined up, while holding the band closed, can be the difficult part
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  6. #6
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    Rolling the rubbers back and installing the piece is usually the "easy part". Wrapping the bands around and getting the hose clamps lined up, while holding the band closed, can be the difficult part
    Putting the collars back on was easy. Rolling those rubber pieces back and then unfolding them over the old line was the struggle. Just bitching really since the whole repair was done in under thirty minutes. The plumbing side anyway.

    For a 2" line like I installed should there be a flexible connection or expansion leg installed? I'm shocked the pipe just failed like that. The more I ponder the more I think it was the freeze thaw cycle with us using the dishwasher over the winter months.

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    John, sorry but that spray job is pretty rough.

    The next time you're spraying the underside of a cantilever or soffit with piping in it and there is a warm space ABOVE the piping, you should get your spray foam guy to put foam on either side of the pipe, below the pipe, but not above it...

    This can be achieved various ways...

    I think you're most accurate with the settlement and rigidity provided by encapsulating the entire pipe in foam, causing stress at the coupling.

    How old is the home, is the foam a retrofit or new-construction application?

    (I am a CUFCA certified applicator)
    Last edited by dlarrivee; 04-21-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,405

    Default

    ABS's expansion/contraction rate is important on long runs, but if the entire pipe is contstrained, that may have been enough to cause it to break. Throw in a bending stress from a sinking foundation wall, and it makes it worse. As an example, a 20' section of abs with a change in temp of 50-degrees = about 2/3" change in length. The formula is: delta L= (reference) L * constant * delta T, where the constant for ABS = 5.5x10-5. FWIW, the constant for PVC is about 1/2 that of ABS, or 3x10-5. On a really long run, that can make a huge difference. But, you use what's available.

    For those that hear their pipes popping or clicking, you can use the above formula to see how much the pipe expands, then contracts after, say , you run hot bath water down it or empty the DW. The whole pipe doesn't heat up fully unless the flow is high and prolonged, but it definately does make a difference.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #9
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
    John, sorry but that spray job is pretty rough.

    The next time you're spraying the underside of a cantilever or soffit with piping in it and there is a warm space ABOVE the piping, you should get your spray foam guy to put foam on either side of the pipe, below the pipe, but not above it...

    This can be achieved various ways...

    I think you're most accurate with the settlement and rigidity provided by encapsulating the entire pipe in foam, causing stress at the coupling.

    How old is the home, is the foam a retrofit or new-construction application?

    (I am a CUFCA certified applicator)
    My home is a good seventy years old but we gutted it and added a new story 2 years back. The spray foam was my idea under the cantilevered kitchen addition. Seems like I need some changes going forward. I might break the pipe free of insulation and just use regular batt in this bay.

    I'm so glad my guy noticed it and we caught this sooner than later.

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #10
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    ABS's expansion/contraction rate is important on long runs, but if the entire pipe is contstrained, that may have been enough to cause it to break. Throw in a bending stress from a sinking foundation wall, and it makes it worse. As an example, a 20' section of abs with a change in temp of 50-degrees = about 2/3" change in length. The formula is: delta L= (reference) L * constant * delta T, where the constant for ABS = 5.5x10-5. FWIW, the constant for PVC is about 1/2 that of ABS, or 3x10-5. On a really long run, that can make a huge difference. But, you use what's available.

    For those that hear their pipes popping or clicking, you can use the above formula to see how much the pipe expands, then contracts after, say , you run hot bath water down it or empty the DW. The whole pipe doesn't heat up fully unless the flow is high and prolonged, but it definately does make a difference.
    Thanks Jim.

    I wonder if I jogged the pipe with a double 45 and and short length if this would help some.

    Perhaps I should remove the ABS and install a copper or cast run???

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,405

    Default

    If you foam it back in place...IF that was the cause, the offset probably wouldn't help. If the slope is correct and there's no belly or hump, I doubt it is from freeze/thaw - there should be minimal water in there - not enough unless it was full, to cause enough stress to break the pipe.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    I think you're absolutely right, it isn't a line full of water on the coldest day of the year...

    John, even wrapping the piping itself in thin fibreglass and spraying foam around it would be fine, a bond breaker if you will.

  13. #13
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
    I think you're absolutely right, it isn't a line full of water on the coldest day of the year...

    John, even wrapping the piping itself in thin fibreglass and spraying foam around it would be fine, a bond breaker if you will.
    I like the bond breaker idea.

    That 2" ABS pipe has a long run to it. Nearly 14' before it drops into the 3" main line.

    I'm also not having such a warm fuzzy feeling about that footing. I think I'm going to add in a solid wall below the kitchen on the East elevation so the weight of the home bears down fully along the foundation footing over 10' instead of just the last 8".

    It never ends.

    Some more pictures of the repair process;










    JW
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 04-22-2012 at 08:24 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #14
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,974
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default



    This beam sagged after the first winter session and we installed this extra support beam last spring. I'm glad I left it in since this same beam was taking on water from this leak. A beam designed to stay dry!

    I wonder if I should coat it all with Hydro Ban or Aqua D incase one day we get another slow leak???

    JW


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  15. #15
    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    What type of beam is that?

Similar Threads

  1. Tools for sweating copper pipe, questions & answers
    By vaman in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-09-2011, 06:57 PM
  2. repairing a section of cpcv pipe
    By huliman in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-08-2010, 06:11 AM
  3. Repairing Broken Toilet Tank Lid
    By Verdeboy in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-08-2007, 01:24 PM
  4. Repairing gas pipe covering
    By rdtompki in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-13-2007, 09:58 PM
  5. glue for repairing air leak in pvc pipe
    By good_improvement in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-07-2004, 09:38 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •