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Thread: New RO, Reverse osmosis

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    Is it a wise choice for a basement install directly below the kitchen sink?

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    Just from the looks of it, I see problems with it fitting under all sinks.
    Actually, it takes less space than any other RO. It is a about one foot square and only 10 inches tall. It fits under most garbage disposals. It can be moved easily and actually transported to temporary locations with a standard male/female faucet attachment.

    As far as fitting under ALL sinks, there will always some that cannot accommodate it but other ROs would be even harder to install, in general.

    It doesn't need a permeate pump unless incoming water pressure is too low. That would be needed with another RO even more because standard ROs' membranes are also fighting the air pressure from the holding tank. It doesn't need a delivery pump because it uses your household pressure (30-6 psi) instead of tank pressure (7-11 psi). This shoots water to the faucet and fridge and pressure doesn't decrease as tanks empties like in air-charged tanks.

    Tank refills immediately after drawing water not waiting till 60 volume is lost. This keeps the tank full all the time.

    I would say marketing needs to improve. price is extremely competitive.

    Presently, there are limited filter options but I think they are working on that.
    It was an INSIDE JOB!!!!

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    water solutions,

    Thanks for your reply.

    In my 1st post I was asking if the cost of a NEXT-RO was an issue compared to the cost of a good quality standard RO plus the cost of a Permeate Pump? (I understand the water pressure benefits of a WOW tank.)

    What additional filters would be most helpful? Does the manifold need more than 3 connections for filters similar to a K5?

    Thanks

  4. #19

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    No, there are three connection pre-, membrane and post-filter. Additional filter choices to address nitrate/nitrite, arsenic, and other contaminants could be beneficial. I am not sure about competitive pricing scales unless you could suggest an example. The NEXT RO is actually a very nice unit and requires little attention. great for new fridges with shut-off solenoids on ice-makers.
    It was an INSIDE JOB!!!!

  5. #20
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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    Do wow tanks get NSF cerification? By desing the posibility of contaminating drinking water is huge posibility. Also i do not see how these units are more efficient than regular RO units, as per specs on the website its just like any other undercounter RO i know.
    Last edited by bcpumpguy; 08-19-2012 at 12:36 PM.

  6. #21

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    Air charged tanks require much more waste water. An air-charged tank when completely empty is very efficient wit a near 1:1 ratio of permeate water to waste water. But as the tank begins to fill, the air pressure against the product water increases and this pressure transfers back to the membrane. By the time the tank nears completion, the ratio may climb to 1:7. It also slows production considerably where the last 15% can take 7 times longer to produce than the first 15%. WOW tanks refill immediately after each use keeping the tanks full at all times. This factor alone makes it a very attractive benefit.

    The WOW design has virtually no back pressure and the membrane has no restriction. This is why it typically produces 35-45 gpd against typical ROs that produce 8-15 gpd.

    The "huge" possibility of water contamination is actually quite remote. Unless the tank is damaged due to freezing or some piercing instrument, I have never heard of the very thick liner corrupting. Agreed, Kinetico's K5 uses air-charged tanks when using its bacteria/virus filter to absolutely eliminate the chance. But, any other RO must never be used on a water that is micro-biologically unsafe.
    It was an INSIDE JOB!!!!

  7. #22
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    ... The Next-RO has removed the majority of the problems associated with a WOW design. Still, for the water treatment industry, a standard (traditional) RO works well in the majority of applications, the simple addition of a Permeate Pump increases the efficiency tremendously for very little additional cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    ... I am not sure about competitive pricing scales unless you could suggest an example.
    One possibility might be the APRO-5050-P for example.

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    Default NEXT-RO vs. Standard RO with a Permeate Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    ... The Next-RO has removed the majority of the problems associated with a WOW design. Still, for the water treatment industry, a standard (traditional) RO works well in the majority of applications, the simple addition of a Permeate Pump increases the efficiency tremendously for very little additional cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    ... I am not sure about competitive pricing scales unless you could suggest an example.
    One example would be the Aquapurion APRO-5050-P.

    It uses the following:
    • 5 Micron Pre-Filter - PURITY PLUS
    • (2) Carbon Block Pre-Filters - OMNIPURE OMB934
    • In-Line GAC Post-Filter - OMNIPURE
    • 50 GPD Axeon (R.O. UltraTec) Residential Membrane - TF-1812-50

    Are the above componets well regarded?
    Last edited by Well-man; 08-19-2012 at 08:48 PM. Reason: added filter list

  9. #24
    DIY Member bcpumpguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    Air charged tanks require much more waste water. An air-charged tank when completely empty is very efficient wit a near 1:1 ratio of permeate water to waste water. But as the tank begins to fill, the air pressure against the product water increases and this pressure transfers back to the membrane. By the time the tank nears completion, the ratio may climb to 1:7. It also slows production considerably where the last 15% can take 7 times longer to produce than the first 15%. WOW tanks refill immediately after each use keeping the tanks full at all times. This factor alone makes it a very attractive benefit.

    The WOW design has virtually no back pressure and the membrane has no restriction. This is why it typically produces 35-45 gpd against typical ROs that produce 8-15 gpd.

    The "huge" possibility of water contamination is actually quite remote. Unless the tank is damaged due to freezing or some piercing instrument, I have never heard of the very thick liner corrupting. Agreed, Kinetico's K5 uses air-charged tanks when using its bacteria/virus filter to absolutely eliminate the chance. But, any other RO must never be used on a water that is micro-biologically unsafe.
    Waste water ratio as far as i know is not determined by air pressure, every ro i know runs at about 1:3 rejection rate meaning 1 part permeate to 3 parts concentrate. Yes Ro membranes can be run at all kinds of diffrent ratio, you can run no rejection whatsoever if you wanted to. In all RO's that we sell rejection ratio is is a figure of drain flow restriction combined with pressure. As the RO fills up the tank, pressure diffrence between the tank and incoming water begins to equalize slowly closing off the membrane valve that controls flow to the membrane. If the pressure in the tank drops the mebrane opens up flow again and the ro begins to make water.

    the wow design must have backpressure on the membrane, unless the water creating the mechanical pressure to push out permeate trough the fawcett magically disapears when the RO makes water. You say 35-45 gallons per day, the literature says it has a 50GPD membrane I wonder what temperature water with how much tds and what the Ph of your water is?

    the pile of ruptured pressure tanks at my shop would tend to argue with the remote posibilty of contamination.

    don't get me wrong I like the idea of the wow design, but I would never say it is better then an aircharged tank.

  10. #25
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    When discussing the pros and cons of certain pieces of equipment, is important to be careful as some people take any criticism of their design very personal. The NEXT Ro is a unique design, but it is more expensive, proprietary, and the advantages are so minimal that for the vast majority of people it makes no difference. The permeate pump gives you the vast majority of the advantages of the WOW design, is simple, well understood, trusted, and has been around for a very long time as well. WOW has been around for over 25 years, if it has not caught on by now, it is unlikely that it ever will. The advantages are more marketing hype than true advantages. Considering how cheap water is, and how cheap RO's are, is it really a major deal to save a hundred gallons of water a year? The average household uses 150-200 a day, so a savings of 1/600 is insignificant. Full line pressure until the tank is empty is neat, but in all reality, who cares? Who uses their ro tank until it is empty? Even then, at 6 pounds of air precharge, an ro will deliver the majority of it water at above 1/4 GPM.

    The WOW RO is an excellent idea, and an engineering masterpiece. Would I bother with one? No.

  11. #26
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    I think some fridge dispensers may have issues with low water pressure so I could see the NEXT RO being a benefit there.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    ... The NEXT Ro is a unique design, but it is more expensive, proprietary, and the advantages are so minimal that for the vast majority of people it makes no difference. The permeate pump gives you the vast majority of the advantages of the WOW design, is simple, well understood, trusted, and has been around for a very long time as well. ....

    The WOW RO is an excellent idea, and an engineering masterpiece. Would I bother with one? No.
    Dittohead,

    Thank you for your WOW analysis. What should I look for when selecting a residential RO system with a permeate pump? Are there well regarded brands & models of membranes, filters, or RO systems? Quality-oriented brands that are less likely to leak or less complicated to service correctly?

    Thanks

  13. #28
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I would recommend staying away from smaller companies who have the best price. These generic RO systems can be made with some very low end junk and the companies offering these great prices usually fold up every year or so and start a new name so they can hide from the liability of their leaking and broken parts.

    Send me a PM, I can recommend a few good and reputable companies to you.

  14. #29
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    Thank you.

  15. #30
    DIY Junior Member Well-man's Avatar
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    Has anyone had any experiece with the Watts Premier 531411 RO PURE RO-4 with optional Aquatec® ERP-1000 560041 Permeate Pump Kit?
    Filters:
    • 5 Micron Sediment Filter
    • 5 micron Carbon Block
    • 50 GPD Thin Film Composite Membrane
    • Carbon Post Filter

    "System tested and certified by WQA against NSF/ANSI Standard 58 for the reduction of the claims specified on the performance data sheet."

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