EBBE Square drain adapter kit for Insta-Set cast iron drain, for hot mopping?

[Killer95Stang]

Just like to thank everyone one in advance for all the help I've received over the years from this site, even though I'm just now registering to post.

Here's my situation. I'm at the beginning stages of a small bathroom remodel. The house is a 1961 Southern California track home on a slab. I've decided that hot mopping my small 36" x 38" shower, then following with a floated wall will be the best way to tackle this out-of-square shower. Which leads me to the drain. I know the shower was originally hot mopped when built, by seeing evidence of tar around the frame. Unfortunately, a neighborhood handyman got to my shower and added a PVC liner pan and hardi board backer walls before I purchased the house about 4 years ago. When sealed the pvc liner to the drain, it appears that filled up the weep holes with silicone sealant. Of course, since he was probably learning on my house, it leaked through the curb, rear walls and under the liner.

So, my plan is to keep the lower portion of the embedded Insta-set drain and add the Ebbe square drain with adapter to use with the hot mopped floor. I've included a few pics that show the pre-sloped floor which is actually formed into the slab. It also shows the condition of the drain. What do you guys think? I don't have draining issues between this shower and the main line. I also don't want to demo the floor if I don't have to.







Thanks again..

[johnfrwhipple]

Does that new flange bolt down onto your old rough in?

We just pulled a clamping drain apart and bought a new drain and used the new top with the old base. Same drain company - Watts "Baby Blue".

Save the client a good grand in extra work!

JW

[Killer95Stang]

Does that new flange bolt down onto your old rough in?

JW

Yes... It comes with a new upper half of the clamping drain, which acts as the adapter for the Ebbe square drain assembly. I'm placing my order tonight, so I'll have a better idea of how it works once it gets here.

[jimbo]

Hot mop is really old school for a shower, but still will be approved by your inspector.....standard practice calls for THREE layers of felt. See the Tile Handbook from the American Tile Council. http://tileusa.com/

If you need help on how to preslope your mud bed, good advice is available at the tile forum www.johnbridge.com

[johnfrwhipple]

Jimbo I believe he already has a pre-slope.

You know with that adapter ring you could easly install a membrane from Noble Company or any local source and go from there? That floor looks in rough shape and we would be chipping it clean before any new step or just polishing it smooth and dry laying a membrane on top.

With a loose membrane or hot hop you need to come up over top at least 1 3/8" with deck mud.

JW

[johnfrwhipple]

This is a tub to shower here in Vancouver. With this project we installed a new clamping drain with the old waste line. Over a clean rough cement floor (this one 15 years old) you can take your pre-slope from a 1/4" thickness and work out if you work with a premium product like the Mapecem Pre-Mix Fast Setting Screed Mortar.

We like to chip the cement a little, clean it, diamond block scrub it, clean it, prime it, slurry coat and then Mapecem.

Your install looks to be that the bottom portion of the drain is a little below grade. This will make the liner wrinkle some if you go that route. Remember this if you go Hot Mop as well as this will be a weak point in the shower's design.

Try and grind smooth the area around the drain and any high points so when the liner or hot mop goes in it lays almost perfectly flat.

Good Luck.

And if you go hot mop fill in around that stack. You should have solid backing everywhere!

JW

[johnfrwhipple]

We fine tuned this showers pre-slope and it was quite similar to your project.

After the cleaning, chipping and such I still had a bad feeling about my bonding abilities.

I decided to use an extra scratch coat and set a layer of mapelath overtop with Grani rapid. This I allowed to dry out for two days and then we approached the install like we where going over concrete.

The Mapecem Pre-Mix in the picture is weighing down the drain rough in which we fire blocked with a fire block spray foam.





Here is the only place my first pass needed correction. I had a slight hump in the corner and this is no good. I fixed it and then went on to the next project.

With this install the drain is a little out of wack. We have no access from below or above. I will be installing a linear drain over top and tying the new linear drain into this modified clamping drain.

The drain in the pictures is from Watts - the "Baby Blue". It has not changed in years and years and all the inspectors love it.



A slurry coat is needed with low lifts of Mapecem Pre-Mix. One part ad-mix and one part Mapecem. Two large coffee cans does a nice job covering an average shower.

[johnfrwhipple]

Here is a look at what that shower floor looked like before the pre-slope went in.





We cleaned and chipped at this floor and hit it with the diamond scrub block. Then I gave it a light wash and then primed it with a 4-1 Water/Grani Liquid Ad-Mix solution and installed the MapeLath with Grani Rapid.

The corners curled a little but I held them in place with my screed guides which I cut from some Green EBoard.

[Killer95Stang]

Hot mop is really old school for a shower, but still will be approved by your inspector.....standard practice calls for THREE layers of felt. See the Tile Handbook from the American Tile Council. http://tileusa.com/

If you need help on how to preslope your mud bed, good advice is available at the tile forum www.johnbridge.com

I tried getting quotes for schluter type systems, but it seems like every tile man i called still does hot mop and floated walls type
tile jobs. Just doing a search of the yellow pages comes up with no less than 10 hot mop only businesses in my area.

Thanks for the tips on the current code for hot mopping. I' ll make sure the licensed company i choose uses the correct standards.

[John Bridge]

If he goes to John Bridge they will try and make him drink the Orange Kool Aid.

I've been trying to ignore Whipple since we ran him off as a trouble-maker a couple years back. John is a DIY'er who over the past few years has proclaimed himself an expert in the building trades, and he has a chip on his shoulder.

At the John Bridge Tile Advice Forums we don't "make" anybody do anything. We do the best we can to help people complete their projects in a workmanlike manner. Just as Terry Love runs the world's number one plumbing advice site, we run the number one tile advice site. JB Forums is affiliated with the National Tile Contractors Association. We are respected within the industry, and we are here to serve.

[johnfrwhipple]

California also approves the use of Noble Companies sheet membranes in your shower build. One of my favourites is Noble Seal TS and they also have a product called Noble Deck.

Noble Deck is a 40/1000" or 40 mil product.

Noble Seal TS is 30/1000" or 30 mil. Either of these products or Noble's regular liners would be a good alternative to Hot Mop.

Kerdi membrane is only 8/1000" and is not approved in California or anywhere for that matter in North America for use with a clamping drain.

Many of the liquid membranes are also approved for use with a clamping drain but this approach is not my favourite.



Our current project here in vancouver which is much like yours. At 5' across the shower pan will have not a single cut in or seam. Try and avoid any seams in your shower pans when possible. If you need a wider material the Noble Deck comes in a 6' wide roll.

Good Luck with your project.

JW

[jadnashua]

If you wanted to use Kerdi, and already had a clamping drain in place, they sell an adapter that screws into the base of the drain to accommodate the Kerdi to create the waterproof connection. Once the waterproof membrane is covered up with the wear surface (the tile), it's thickness is irrelevant, and thinner makes less obtrusive seams and folds. All of them can work well, if installed properly.

[westcoasthotmop]

Hi Killer, We hot mop hundreds of showers every month. We get asked this question often. If this was on a second floor we would highly recommend you change out the drain. However, on first floor slab it is not as risky. You just want to make sure that the new top half of the drain you are buying fits perfectly over the old bottom flange. We have seen showers leak in between the halves because the two pieces don't sandwich together nicely. You can find more info on hot mopping and shower pan articles Here. Thanks! - West Coast Shower Pans

[hj]

Those three bolts on the clamping flange may NOT be in a generic pattern, meaning a flange from a different manufacturer may not fit it.

[johnfrwhipple]

Those three bolts on the clamping flange may NOT be in a generic pattern, meaning a flange from a different manufacturer may not fit it.

The Schluter drain adapter is quite slick. I have one here in Vancouver but it builts up shower level quite high. That's OK if you want a huge curb but we find most people are looking for lower curbs. I think once tiled the Kerdi curb is close to 7 1/2".

If you wanted to use Kerdi, and already had a clamping drain in place, they sell an adapter that screws into the base of the drain to accommodate the Kerdi to create the waterproof connection. Once the waterproof membrane is covered up with the wear surface (the tile), it's thickness is irrelevant, and thinner makes less obtrusive seams and folds. All of them can work well, if installed properly.

Kerdi is so thin Jim that the material can't hold a crease and can be puncture so easily. An loose stone or rock can puncture right through it. I find even with noble's membrane at 30 mil or 30/1000" we still get the occassional puncture from a stone. Adjusting your curb build and backer board takes the thickness out of the equation and allows for a thicker membrane.

California I believe has a 30 mil requirement for all their shower pan liners. Kerdi is only 8 mil and I have heard from many builders and tile men in California that inspectors do not approve it.