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Thread: Do I need a softener?

  1. #31
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Good luck getting the 5800SXT, and... dont be surprised if Fleck goes the way of Clack on their new valve line starting with the 5800SXT. It is in very limited production right now, and only a few people will have access to any quantities.

    I also prefer to rename semi anonymous, so please refrain from using my name on this site. I will ask only once.

    Like Tom said, this horse has been dead for a long time. maybe we could reclassify it as "living impaired". No matter what anyones experience, knowledge, training, schooling, education, years of service, certifications, licences, etc, nobody will ever be as good as...

  2. #32
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    as... YOU!

    Yeah all that going on about you didn't care if people knew who you are and anyone could find out who you are... Tom, NHMaster, and all the other fake names he's used said the same thing "anybody can find my name" blah blah blah..., Google could only find one article by you. And now you don't want anyone, or is it just me, using your first name. What fakes you two are. BTW, does the E. stand for Egotistical or Egotist, or, just Exceptional?

    If as you say this horse is dead, I guess you two are still beating it and expecting different results?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    as... YOU!

    Yeah all that going on about you didn't care if people knew who you are and anyone could find out who you are... Tom, NHMaster, and all the other fake names he's used said the same thing "anybody can find my name" blah blah blah..., Google could only find one article by you. And now you don't want anyone, or is it just me, using your first name. What fakes you two are. BTW, does the E. stand for Egotistical or Egotist, or, just Exceptional?

    If as you say this horse is dead, I guess you two are still beating it and expecting different results?
    Aren't personal attacks against forum rules?

  4. #34
    DIY Member rjh2o's Avatar
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    Wow Gary, for someone that is suppose to be retired you certainly are stressed! Perhaps you need to find a hobby to chill out.
    RJ2O

  5. #35
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Any one seen the person that started this thread?
    Or does any one remember what the question was with out going to the first post?

    Once again another thread killed at the hands of "I am Right and every one else is Wrong"

    Any one notice the last number of threads have turned in to who is right and knows more than helping the person posting the first question?

  6. #36
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    LOL comparing 18 year old service tech etc. trainees to DIYers!!

    I'm thinking that until you and 'Tom' et al talk to a few hundred DIYers and answer the same number of their emails and posts in forums etc., you won't know what those people want to know or how capable they are at DIY projects. Or how good their BS detectors are honed.

    Nope, dont' talk to DIY'ers on the phone or by email or forum. folks PM me here and other places all the time asking me to sell them stuff....I don't and won't. Don't need to, don't want to. Does that mean that I am somehow less qualified to deal with water filtration? (see how you make inferences and then try desperately to make other folks believe your convoluted logic?) Over the years I'd bet I have sold probably twice as much equipment than you have and moreover, unlike you, I have installed it and serviced it. You make answering questions sound like rocket science. ANYONE with a computer and ******* can answer questions. Anyone that can read a troubleshooting chart can answer questions.
    But, this is maybe the 50th time or so that you have beaten that horse LOL


    Plus the fact that they have researched the internet and most that I've talked to over the last 15 years have already spoken to 2-3 local dealers and/or salespeople or a service guy or two about their current softener or the one they want to buy now for their new, or new to them, first house.

    The single BIGGEST reason they ended up dealing with you is PRICE and price alone. They come to you (anhd other online dealers) because they don't want to pay full price for the equipment and they don't want to pay for the installation. Now before you start claiming that I'm anti DiY again (that horse is nothing more than bone dust) I have no issue at all with foks installing their own equipment and the fact that I sit here and answer their questions is proof enough for most LOGICAL thinking folks but......go ahead and take another whack at the poor horse LOL

    So ya think I and my future DIYer customers might like that new 5800SXT huh. hummmm I could be open for business Monday and Tuesday and take the rest of the week off. I still get 5-10 people a week contacting me after being out of business for like 22 months now....
    You announce that as if expecting everyone to argue with you or talk you out of it. By all means, hang the sign and open for business. I truly wish you the very best and hope that Fleck does not shut you down like Clack did LOL
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  7. #37
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    At 9 grains per gallon, I would not run to a softener. City water here in San Diego is 14. I have never had a softener, although lots of folks do. We have simple undersink single cartridge filter for drinking water, and and same for icemaker. Clothes washer works fine, showers are fine. Yes, the is some mineral deposits in the wh, and on fixtures if you don't wipe them down. We just like it this way.

  8. #38
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    Aren't personal attacks against forum rules?
    Depends on who makes them LOL but before anyone gets outraged you should know that I really don't care. I find it entertaining and a bit humerus as I'm sure many of you folks do too. It's a bit like watching a child throw a tantrum in Wal-Mart....Hard to look away. does make a mess of the thread though no doubt.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  9. #39
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Gary Slusser;338492]as... YOU!

    Yeah all that going on about you didn't care if people knew who you are and anyone could find out who you are... Tom, NHMaster, and all the other fake names he's used said the same thing "anybody can find my name" blah blah blah..., Google could only find one article by you. And now you don't want anyone, or is it just me, using your first name. What fakes you two are. BTW, does the E. stand for Egotistical or Egotist, or, just Exceptional?

    I know his first and last name and where he lives as well but unlike you, I respect his privacy. Another dead horse issue that you seem unable to grasp. Some of us worry about unstable folks perhaps showing up on our door steps. As you don't have a door step, it's pretty easy for you to say anything you want, but again, this has all been explained to you in great detail but you refuse to either comprehend or more likely care about other folks wishes. I suggest you either let this one go for good or start complaining that 90% of the moderators on this site don't publish their names or their personal addresses either. Your behavior in this matter can only be described a crass and rude. Dealing with kids all day I often wonder where many of their behaviors stem from but honestly, I have a pretty good idea.
    Last edited by Tom Sawyer; 03-24-2012 at 06:05 AM.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  10. #40
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Nope, dont' talk to DIY'ers on the phone or by email or forum. folks PM me here and other places all the time asking me to sell them stuff....I don't and won't. Don't need to, don't want to. Does that mean that I am somehow less qualified to deal with water filtration? (see how you make inferences and then try desperately to make other folks believe your convoluted logic?)
    It means what I said, you don't have any experience with DIYers and do not understand what motivates them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    ANYONE with a computer and ******* can answer questions. Anyone that can read a troubleshooting chart can answer questions.
    You have both but don't do well here answering questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    The single BIGGEST reason they ended up dealing with you is PRICE and price alone. They come to you (anhd other online dealers) because they don't want to pay full price for the equipment and they don't want to pay for the installation. Now before you start claiming that I'm anti DiY again (that horse is nothing more than bone dust) I have no issue at all with foks installing their own equipment and the fact that I sit here and answer their questions is proof enough for most LOGICAL thinking folks but......go ahead and take another whack at the poor horse LOL
    National figures show 80+% of Americans have internet service. Research shows that more than 80% go online to research products they are interested in or wanting to buy.

    Many millions of them then buy those products online. The biggest reason they do that is based on convenience and the time it saves them, and many will pay more for the product because of the convenience but, most price shop too.

    Most people that contacted me and bought from me did so based on my posts that you and others whined about for years. The vast majority told me why they bought from me instead of another online dealer, or the local dealers or plumbers or drillers they had out to their house before getting online and finding my posts.

    Now I'll leave you to come up with whatever reason you think they gave me but I'll bet ya get it wrong; as you have by saying it was the price. Hint... it's a five letter word but it ain't price although the online price comparison to a local dealer or plumber was mentioned frequently but... that price from a dealer or plumber is why many got online but it was not the most important reason, or why they contacted me and bought from me.

    Actually I told them they were grossly unfair in comparing online pricing to local dealers etc. because we didn't have the overhead they had. And we passed the savings on to them while keeping our prices low because we were in tough competition with all other online dealers. And it was very easy for them to compare our prices while it was very difficult and time consuming to compare local prices because they couldn't get a price without having a salesperson or crack showin' plumber come out to the house first!

    BTW, a fair percentage of my customers had a plumber do their installation. Most, although I strongly advised against it, had that plumber do the assembly also. I actually suggested using a plumber for the installation if I thought it was something the prospective customer couldn't handle.

    I spent many an hour on the phone with know it all plumbers with questions or problems because they would not follow my instructions.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  11. #41
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    It means what I said, you don't have any experience with DIYers and do not understand what motivates them.

    You have both but don't do well here answering questions.


    National figures show 80+% of Americans have internet service. Research shows that more than 80% go online to research products they are interested in or wanting to buy.

    Many millions of them then buy those products online. The biggest reason they do that is based on convenience and the time it saves them, and many will pay more for the product because of the convenience but, most price shop too.

    Most people that contacted me and bought from me did so based on my posts that you and others whined about for years. The vast majority told me why they bought from me instead of another online dealer, or the local dealers or plumbers or drillers they had out to their house before getting online and finding my posts.

    Now I'll leave you to come up with whatever reason you think they gave me but I'll bet ya get it wrong; as you have by saying it was the price. Hint... it's a five letter word but it ain't price although the online price comparison to a local dealer or plumber was mentioned frequently but... that price from a dealer or plumber is why many got online but it was not the most important reason, or why they contacted me and bought from me.

    Actually I told them they were grossly unfair in comparing online pricing to local dealers etc. because we didn't have the overhead they had. And we passed the savings on to them while keeping our prices low because we were in tough competition with all other online dealers. And it was very easy for them to compare our prices while it was very difficult and time consuming to compare local prices because they couldn't get a price without having a salesperson or crack showin' plumber come out to the house first!

    BTW, a fair percentage of my customers had a plumber do their installation. Most, although I strongly advised against it, had that plumber do the assembly also. I actually suggested using a plumber for the installation if I thought it was something the prospective customer couldn't handle.

    I spent many an hour on the phone with know it all plumbers with questions or problems because they would not follow my instructions.
    Ok, now what is your point? and more over.........other than you, who cares? LOL

    BTW, I do pretty well answering questions here and if I bothered to save them I could show you many many PM's from folks that would rather get a straight no BS answer than have to wade through page after page of useless arguments and convoluted reasoning......like this thread LOL I don't think you have a clue how frustrating it is to the folks asking questions to have to read through all the nonsense. Funny also that it does not seem to happen much on the other forum threads on this forum. Funny also why it seems like every single screwed up thread has your name attached to it. Notice how all the rest of us here somehow manage to get along and treat each other with respect. Why do you suppose that is?
    Last edited by Tom Sawyer; 03-24-2012 at 10:56 AM.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  12. #42
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    as... YOU!

    Yeah all that going on about you didn't care if people knew who you are and anyone could find out who you are... Tom, NHMaster, and all the other fake names he's used said the same thing "anybody can find my name" blah blah blah..., Google could only find one article by you. And now you don't want anyone, or is it just me, using your first name. What fakes you two are. BTW, does the E. stand for Egotistical or Egotist, or, just Exceptional?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    I know his first and last name and where he lives as well but unlike you, I respect his privacy. Another dead horse issue that you seem unable to grasp. Some of us worry about unstable folks perhaps showing up on our door steps. As you don't have a door step, it's pretty easy for you to say anything you want, but again, this has all been explained to you in great detail but you refuse to either comprehend or more likely care about other folks wishes. I suggest you either let this one go for good or start complaining that 90% of the moderators on this site don't publish their names or their personal addresses either. Your behavior in this matter can only be described a crass and rude. Dealing with kids all day I often wonder where many of their behaviors stem from but honestly, I have a pretty good idea.
    Well then, what does the E stand for?

    Y'all worry about me showing up because yer scared. A hell of a way to live if ya ask me but then I suppose its due to your BS in forums like here where you aren't all that proud of your anonymous, grass and rude behavior.

    If I were going to show up at someone's door because of something they said or did in a forum, I would tell them I was coming, just to see if they would be there when I arrived but, yous guys are stalking me wherever I go on the internet as anonymous self important nits and not worth the effort or expense. Plus y'all brought me more business over the years than you'll ever know and I being retired'n all, I entertain ya now just for kicks.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #43
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Well then, what does the E stand for?

    Y'all worry about me showing up because yer scared. A hell of a way to live if ya ask me but then I suppose its due to your BS in forums like here where you aren't all that proud of your anonymous, grass and rude behavior.

    If I were going to show up at someone's door because of something they said or did in a forum, I would tell them I was coming, just to see if they would be there when I arrived but, yous guys are stalking me wherever I go on the internet as anonymous self important nits and not worth the effort or expense. Plus y'all brought me more business over the years than you'll ever know and I being retired'n all, I entertain ya now just for kicks.
    First off it's crass, not grass second off, there you go again inferring things that nobody has said. Did anyone here express a fear that YOU would show up on their door step? Nope, and even if you did I guarantee that you would be polite and civil, at least to me anyway. As for stalking you on the internet, you need to put on the trusty tin foil helmet again. That you belong, whoops sorry......belonged to the same forums that most of us do has a whole lot more to do with the SUBJECT of the forum rather than anyone's desire to stalk you. I could just as easily twist things around and accuse you of stalking us. But....your brain does not seem to have a healthy logic circuit so.........go find the helmet. LOL And I'm glad we brought you business. I whole hardheartedly support any American that has what it takes to run any business in today's economy. And yes, your antics are very very entertaining indeed.

    Next..............................................
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  14. #44
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Sorry, that was supposed to grass induced and rude behavior.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #45
    DIY Senior Member F6Hawk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input, Jimbo, I appreciate an answer to my question. 9 isn't terribly hard, I just wonder what softer feels like, and what less spotty glasses look like, LOL. I'm also concerned as to what the inside of my DHW boiler coil looks like. Methinks that perhaps things would be better at 1~5gpg than 9. That's why I turned to a forum to get opinions.

    If any of you pros want to offer good advice about the max gpg that a person should be willing to live with, or how to properly size a system (should I opt to install one), that would be greatly appreciated. Using my thread to compare the size of your cyber wankers is a tad uncalled for, and certainly less than helpful.

    Dittohead, thanks for clearing up my question about cu ft and K sizing. That helps me understand a bit better.

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