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Thread: Toilet drain pipe issue

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Fantom's Avatar
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    Default Toilet drain pipe issue

    There are two pictures here of a toilet drain pipe. I need to replace the tee joint - it is cracked. Is the best place to cut it where I mark the arrows? Should the riser pipe going up to the toilet flange be 3 or 4 inches? If it is 4" the flange fits inside the pipe instead of being pushed down on the outside and blocked by cured concrete or should i leave room for this and use 3" riser again? The previous toilet flange was never fastened to the floor. Whenever the toilet moved however little - the riser pipe and everything else moved also. Name:  IMG00050-20120316-1729.jpg
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    Last edited by Fantom; 03-17-2012 at 12:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    A "tee" is the wrong fitting, but it looks like you do not have any other option. Use 4" pipe, and the flange slides down OVER the 4" pipe.
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  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Fantom's Avatar
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    Thanks hj; what is the right fitting?

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    With 4" sch 40 pvc I always install the flange on the inside of the pipe.

    Wye or a combo would be the proper fitting.

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; With 4" sch 40 pvc I always install the flange on the inside of the pipe.

    If I were going to use an "inside" flange, I might as well use a 3" riser and put the flange on the outside. BUT, since I NEVER do that, I always slide the 4" flange over the pipe. In this case, however, AA=it would be impossible to use a "Y", but there might be enough elevation to use a combo on its back with a "spigot" flange into the hub.
    Last edited by hj; 03-17-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    quote; With 4" sch 40 pvc I always install the flange on the inside of the pipe.

    If I were going to use an "inside" flange, I might as well use a 3" riser and put the flange on the outside..
    Whats the logic behind that? LOL

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    I use 4" inside flanges for several reasons. I can stub up with 4" pipe and the finished floor can be laid against the pipe.....when its time to set the flange after the finished floor is installed I can just cut the riser off and set the flange. The height is always perfect this way and no bother of tile or concrete in the way of my flange install.

    Also if the finished floor is changed to a different height a 4" inside flange is easier to remove.

    I do not use spanner flanges or extension flanges. I always anchor the flange to the subfloor. Never any problems.......NEVER

  8. #8
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    The opening in an "inside the pipe" flange is only slightly larger than a 3" riser, (in fact most of those flanges are really a 3" hub with the outside o.d. about equal to the i.d. of a 4" pipe), so if the flange fits over the 3" it will create almost the same opening. If the finished floor "moves", the all you have to do is cut the outside the pipe flange off flush with the floor, then you CAN insert a new one inside the pipe. Much faster than cutting out the inside flange.
    Last edited by hj; 03-17-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    The opening in an "inside the pipe" flange is only slightly larger than a 3" riser, (in fact most of those flanges are really a 3" hub with the outside o.d. about equal to the i.d. of a 4" pipe), so if the flange fits over the 3" it will create almost the same opening. If the finished floor "moves", the all you have to do is cut the outside the pipe flange off flush with the floor, then you CAN insert a new one inside the pipe. Much faster than cutting out the inside flange.
    Right so why would you use a 3" over the pipe flange instead of a 4" in the pipe flange. Read the first sentence of your post #5. I dont understand that logic.

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    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    Here is a good link to TEE's and WYE's

    https://ibcode.com/uploads/Aug_24_Sanitary_Tee.pdf

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Right so why would you use a 3" over the pipe flange instead of a 4" in the pipe flange

    You are misunderstanding. I would NOT do it either way, I was referencing YOUR statement about how YOU do it, and how it does not make a lot of sense to go to the expense of a 4" riser, and then reduce it down to about the same as a 3" riser.
    Last edited by hj; 03-18-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    quote; Right so why would you use a 3" over the pipe flange instead of a 4" in the pipe flange

    You are misunderstanding. I would NOT do it either way, I was referencing YOUR statement about how YOU do it.
    Yeah I use inside 4" pipe flanges. Its easier because I do not have to bother with tile or concrete being in the way of sliding a flange over the pipe. The tile and concrete can butt right up to the pipe.

    Your the one who brought up the use of over the pipe 3" flanges...not me.

    ADD> I just saw your edit....... "the expense of a 4" riser only to reduce it to about the same as a 3" riser"

    Quit while your behind.........your not really making any sense. The cost is not a factor and neither is the reduction in size.
    Last edited by Hackney plumbing; 03-18-2012 at 08:17 AM.

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    When people use over the pipe flanges they usually wrap some kinda crap around the exterior of the pipe so the concrete doesn't fill that space so it makes room for the flange to solvent weld over the pipe.

    Then you have to dig that out when its time to set the flange. Most of the time too much of whatever was used so the gap is larger than it needs to be. This can cause a problem with anchoring the flange because the concrete is not strong enough because the screw etc is too close to the edge of the concrete to have enough holding power.

    My way the concrete is full thickness all the way around the pipe and holds the pipe steady and gives me plenty of concrete to get the flange anchored properly.......then and in the future if replacement is needed.

    I can remove an inside the pipe flange in about 3 to 4 minutes. I'll make a video of it one day.

    But I realize I'm an expert and not everyone realizes these problems.

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    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    I wish I stubbed out with 4" when I did my bathroom, I know that much.

  15. #15
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hackney plumbing View Post
    I can remove an inside the pipe flange in about 3 to 4 minutes. I'll make a video of it one day.
    Oh man you're gonna get Hackney goin on videos again. I still remember his videos from about 2 months ago where he soldered caps on a dry 12" piece of 1/2" copper, proving soldering on a closed system, then he had a buddy pressurize to failure.

    What Hackney says above does make sense though using a 4" inside flanges.

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