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Thread: CR100 with KDF-85

  1. #61
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaineWT View Post
    I stumbled across this thread looking for something else and thought I might add my 2 cents as I have had a few customers try to add KDF to a Sanitizer just like you did to no avail. When you pour in the KDF all at once on the top it will act like a plug and ride up and down during backwash and will not typically settle to the bottom. The proper way to add KDF (and it should be 16 pounds in a 10" tank to create a 2" layer) is to poke a bunch of holes down into the CR100 and then pour in about a 1/3 of the KDF, then poke more holes, pour another 1/3, poke more holes and pour the remaining third. Then put the unit into backwash and the KDF will fall to the bottom. In your case I would try to poke as much down into the bed as you can until you see a lot of white or at least a good mix and then put the unit into backwash. I would also confirm the DLFC is a 7GPM and that the numbers face toward you when you remove the clip on the DLFC housing to check the flow rate. Good Luck!!
    Wow....that makes a lot of sense, the rep from the regional district after a call to the US
    headquarter did mention the "plug" behaviour and after opening it up this afternoon, That's exactly
    what it looked like.
    So far the HQ for a solution has only suggested basically a re-bed and if it comes
    to that I will go with your suggestion befor blowing more money on media, considering that
    it only have 6 months usage .

    DLFC is what???

    Thx for dropping in....

  2. #62
    DIY Member rjh2o's Avatar
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    As was mentioned earlier, the KDF is very heavy and will lay on top of the CR100 because the media can not be lifted properly when backwashing to cause the KDF to settle to the bottom. Take the end of a broom handle and poke holes in the top of the media (as suggested) then run the system through backwash several times to see if KDF has settled to bottom. Repeat if necessary. We have done this several times with very good success.
    You don,t need to rebed the system unless the CR100 has eroded away (due to PH correction) and that should not be the case in such a short time.
    RJ

  3. #63
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Well I figured out what is DLFC and it indicate 042 on the rubber and in the CLACK specs it says 4.2GPM
    So in my book and in my back pocket they haven't put the right one in as they claim.
    They say that it should be between 5-7 GPM for proper backwash and the rep told me
    last night that I have a 7GPM in......
    So maybe yes maybe no that with a 7GPM DLFC the KDF would of end up in bottom?????

    So... for sure if the only solution for them is to re-bed it will be at their expense as I have
    now good arguments... KDF on top was suppose to work, and wrong DLFC...

    FYI.... a table spoon of KDF weight 40 grams and CR100 is 10 Grams..

    I'll keep you posted as it unfold...

    Well the company informed me that 4.2GPM DLFC is the right one
    for the medium and the amount in it....down to 1 argument
    Last edited by royerm; 03-16-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  4. #64
    DIY Junior Member MaineWT's Avatar
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    I shouldn't have gone off the top of my head recommending a 7, sorry about that. But when I saw the response from the company I knew that wasn't right either so I looked it up in the chart, 4.2 is for a 10x54 unit with just CR100. Once you add the much heavier KDF material you need to go up one size so you should have at least a 5.3 in there.

  5. #65
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaineWT View Post
    I shouldn't have gone off the top of my head recommending a 7, sorry about that. But when I saw the response from the company I knew that wasn't right either so I looked it up in the chart, 4.2 is for a 10x54 unit with just CR100. Once you add the much heavier KDF material you need to go up one size so you should have at least a 5.3 in there.
    That went thru my mind also, I will speak to them about that.
    I 'm still waiting on sales rep. and distributor response to see what they will suggest
    for a solution.
    I know have at least a way to mix it up to bring the KDF at the bottom!!!!

    Thx

  6. #66
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Technically, KDF should be backwashed with a minimum 25 GPM per Sq. Ft. to achieve a 10-15% bed expansion. I am sure the company that designed your equipment has taken into consideration the low backwash rates and its long term affects on the KDF media. We sell a lot of 10x44 tanks with just KDF media, and garnet underbedding. They have the 7000 valve and use a 15 GPM button which equals approximately 22 GPM per Sq. Ft. of bed area. When KDF is backwashed with lower flows, it's life expectancy may be limited. Just something to consider. http://www.kdfft.com/images/kdf_POESheet.pdf

  7. #67
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Technically, KDF should be backwashed with a minimum 25 GPM per Sq. Ft. to achieve a 10-15% bed expansion. I am sure the company that designed your equipment has taken into consideration the low backwash rates and its long term affects on the KDF media. We sell a lot of 10x44 tanks with just KDF media, and garnet underbedding. They have the 7000 valve and use a 15 GPM button which equals approximately 22 GPM per Sq. Ft. of bed area. When KDF is backwashed with lower flows, it's life expectancy may be limited. Just something to consider. http://www.kdfft.com/images/kdf_POESheet.pdf
    I've stopped by my salesman this Afternoon to ask what they came up with
    and he informed me that they are sending me all the material to flush and re-bed.

    And I also mentioned about the possible new size of DLFC required and after talking
    with the distributor they are sending the proper size one.

    I'm sitting back and realizing all the knowledge that has come thru
    this thread and would like to thank you all....

    DITTO...Can the cr100 and kdf be stored for a certain length of time????
    I'm tempted to keep it for when I'll really need a re-bed and try to bring it
    down by poking it as suggested.. Thx

  8. #68
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    The KDF is ground copper and Zinc, so in theory, it should have a virtually unlimited life expectancy. We stock approximately 1000 pounds in house and have never really bothered caring about inventory rotation like we do resins or other media. Copper can start to get a petina when exposed to the elements and oxygen, so keet it sealed and I assume you should be just fine. As to the cr100 media, I am sure someone else who has more experience with that media will have a better answer than i could give.

    You could try removing the flow control and put a ball valve on the drain line. Put the system in backwash, and slowly open the valve. Continue opening it until media starts to come out the drain line, this will be your maximum flow rate that the medias can tolerate. This may be high enough to allow the cr100 to fluidize and the KDF to drop below. Use caution, and when I say to slowly open the valve, I mean slowly! If you open the valve wide, the cr100 will likely get flushed to the drain. The goal is to "fluidize" the cr100, allowing the KDF to drop below to the underbedding.

  9. #69
    DIY Member royerm's Avatar
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    The Eastern Greenway sales rep for Canada confirmed to me via e-mail
    that the new media; gravel,cr100,Kdf and the appropriate DLFC valve has been shipped at no cost to me....

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