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Thread: Concerned over Backpressure by Adding a CSV Valve to Existing System

  1. #31
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    That 3 HP is really not too big for a 360’ deep well. If the water level pulls down to 300’, it will only produce 15 GPM at 40 PSI. That is about the same as a 1HP in a 100’ deep well.

    The problem is the water table being at 150’. No matter how deep the pump is set, when the water level is at 150’, the pump is only lifting from 150’, and then that pump will produce 35 GPM.

    The well needed to be tested so you know if the water level stays at 150’, or if it pulls down to 350’. If it stays at 150’, a 1.5HP pump is all you need. If it drops to 300’, the 3HP is necessary.

    Most wells don’t get tested as they should so they just use a pump big enough to lift from 300’, just in case. Then if the water level doesn’t pull down, the pump is way oversized as BV says. That is when a CSV comes in handy as it will trim a pump down to the size you need. The CSV will make a 30 GPM pump work like a 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or whatever size pump you need.

    The “different internal design” between a CSV and a PRV makes for two completely different valves. Self-cleaning has nothing to do with it.

    A PRV would hold a constant pressure when using water. But a PRV would burn up a pump is installed prior to the pressure tank. It would have to be installed after the pressure tank, would let the pump continue to cycle itself to death, and does not control tank fill rate. So you can’t get a large enough pressure tank.

    A CSV holds the pressure constant when using any amount of water. But it is installed prior to the pressure tank and pressure switch, keeps the pump from cycling, makes the pump last longer, and controls the fill rate of the pressure tank. So you can use a much smaller pressure tank if you want, which saves money.

    I really hope you don’t need the Lakos. A well that makes sand is a problem forever. Try pumping it out hard for a few days first.

    OH I jsut realized that if you put a PRV after a pressure tank, you also need an expansion tank on the water heater.
    Last edited by valveman; 03-01-2012 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #32
    DIY Junior Member vpr80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    I really hope you don’t need the Lakos. A well that makes sand is a problem forever. Try pumping it out hard for a few days first.
    Can you elaborate on this please. What do you mean by pumping it hard for a few days? How do I do this with everything already up and running. Besides this was installed a year ago.

    I don't know if I am using the correct terminology, but I am getting a lot of "sediment". For example, the cartridge filters come out brown full of fine dirt when changing them. The toilet tanks have a very fine particle collection on the bottom. And all the aerators have small chunks of various colors that you could pick up with your fingers. Granted there is not a lot of those, but every six months or so, I will go through the aerators and each one would have a few of those. (Side comment, those could still be in the system from before the cartridge filters were installed.)
    Last edited by vpr80; 03-01-2012 at 02:27 PM.

  3. #33
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    A properly constructed well should not make sand or sediment. The casing screen or perf and sometimes a gravel pack should make a filter out of the well itself. The pump should only see nice clean water. Of course all new wells need to be pumped out. Sometimes it takes days to pump the crud out of the screen and filter pack so the well starts making nice clean water.

    If the well was not properly constructed it will always make sand. Then the best you can do is filter it, and the Lakos is really good at that. But the sand will always be a problem for the well and pump.

    A good well should pump out clean and never make sand again. But you have to pump it hard. A single faucet is not good enough. You need a big pipe of water running or enough faucets open to keep the pressure below about 20 PSI.

  4. #34
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    A good well should pump out clean and never make sand again. But you have to pump it hard. A single faucet is not good enough. You need a big pipe of water running or enough faucets open to keep the pressure below about 20 PSI.
    An oversized pump going into a large pressure tank
    will emulate that for short periods and can stir up a problem well. That is because the big tank is almost like a big open pipe, allowing a high GPM rate to fill the tank.

    If you have a big tank, you could narrow the 20 PSI delta on your pressure switch by using an EPS15/99 in conjuction with a CSV.

    If I let my pump pull full bore, it would bring up lots of mud but my pump is flow restricted by the venturi in my micronizer.

  5. #35
    DIY Junior Member vpr80's Avatar
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    Ok my CSV1A is coming in today and I am getting it put in this weekend, but just had a question. I understand the schematics of how to plumb it, but what is the correct process of start-up? My pressure switch is currently at approx 45-65psi setting.

    I tried to find some instructions on the website, but couldn't find much help. I am specifically concerned on how to adjust the CSV for start-up (assuming > 65psi) and then bring it down to approx 62-63 psi?

    Thank you

  6. #36
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Start with the adjustment bolt loosened out. Run a garden hose or anything that lets out about 3 GPM. Adjust the bolt clockwise until the pressure steadies at 62 PSI. Tighten the lock nut.

  7. #37
    DIY Junior Member vpr80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    Start with the adjustment bolt loosened out. Run a garden hose or anything that lets out about 3 GPM. Adjust the bolt clockwise until the pressure steadies at 62 PSI. Tighten the lock nut.
    Sorry, but I don't get how I am supposed to steady on 62psi? So I turn the water back on and the system will pressurize again to 65psi and cut off. Then I run the water out of the hose and the pressure will begin to steadily go down basically until it hits 45 psi and then cut in again. How how do I adjust the CSV to 62psi when its either draining down or very quickly filling up when the pump goes on?

    Unless you mean to keep going through this cycle up and down until the CSV adjustment finally goes below 65psi and holds while the water is running out the hose?

  8. #38
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    If you have 3 GPM running and the bolt on the CSV loosened out, the pump cannot build up and shut off. It will start out at about 15 PSI, and will increase as you turn the bolt clockwise until the gauge steadies at 62 PSI. Then only when yoou shut off all the faucets will it slowly build to 65 and be shut off.

  9. #39
    DIY Junior Member vpr80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    That pump will build 130 psi back pressure. Should not be a problem.
    The fun continues. So the plumber cancelled on Sat, but I was looking at the whole thing and another question came up.

    The line that is running from the well to my tank looks like a black hard plastic 1"OD that is joined with screw clamps in several places. This doesn't seem like a very good idea if I am going to create 130psi in back pressure from the tank. So now I am thinking that instead of using the CSV1A, maybe a CSV1W at the top of the well would be a better idea.

    The last thing that I need would be a rupture in the supply line that turns on the pump and fills my basement with 5 feet of water at 25 gpm
    Last edited by vpr80; 05-07-2012 at 06:01 AM.

  10. #40
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Hopefully that is 160# pipe, which is rated much higher than 160#. I would be less concerned about 130 PSI back pressure from the CSV as I would watetr hammer that happens when a pump is cycling on and off at 40/60 without a CSV. But either way will work. That is one reason we make valves like the CSV1W that will fit in the well.

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member vpr80's Avatar
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    First of all, thank you very much for the very quick replies...certainly helps.

    Just out of paranoia, I think that I will get the CSV1W instead. The house is old and that supply line is like 50 yrs old so I rather not take chances with it. It might be fine at 60 psi, but I don't want to find out if the pipe and all the fittings can handle sustained 130 psi for hours at a time while the sprinklers are running.

    Thanks again!

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