cleanout locations when pipe is between joists and up against subfloor

[kmuddzy]

Hi. I am putting in 3" and 2" pipe underneath an existing 1st floor. there is a basement so I have full access to the floor joists bays but there is an existing plumbing line I that I need to slope to.

1) The 2" kitchen sink drain runs through the floor and transitions to horizontal with a sweep elbow. The 2" pipe starts snug against the subfloor so I can get the correct pitch and runs for 22 feet before another horizontal sweep wye connects to existing sewer line. I plan to put a cleanout at this sweep wye but it will obviously not be oriented toward the 22foot run.

Questions:

Do I need a cleanout in this 22' long run? If so, how long can I run before I need a cleanout?

How do I install the clean-out since I can't orient a Tee vertically and if I orient a wye horizontal I only have at most 12" of clearance between joist and cleanout (Bert's plumbing guide says 18")?

2) I have a 3" stack collecting the 2nd floor plumbing and it transitions to horizontal underneath the 1st floor with a vertically oriented long sweep ell. Before this sweep ell, I have a Wye cleanout. The vertical sweep ell is immediately connected to a horizontal sweep ell inside the joist bay and the pipe runs through the rim joist into the basement. The pipe connects another horizontal sweep elbow that turns down about 45 degrees while it turns 90 degrees horizontally.
You can see in the pics below that I stuck in a wye cleanout but it is almost horizontal and it is very tight behind it since it is inside a joist bay and faces the rim joist. Even if I was to move the wye next to the sweep ell it would still be oriented almost horizontal and access would be less then 18".

Questions:

I know Berts plumbing guide says a cleanout is required after 135deg of horizontal change but do I need this cleanout if the second sweep ell is only 6 feet from the stack cleanout?

If so, is there a better way to install the cleanout in this situation?

Last question: At what point is an elbow fitting not considered a horizontal change? i.e. is 45 degrees the magic number where greater than 45 is considered vertical and less than 45 degrees considered horizontal?


3" elbows from stack


3" piping from 3" elbows in pic above

[Plumber111]

Put a 2" C.O. or "Test Tee" above the floor. The 2" horizontal 90 looks back-pitched to me by the way.

I can't figure out all the jargon you have stated in statement 2. (Lazy reader I guess.) Some areas will also let you install a 3" C.O. or "Test Tee" horizontally as well for service. Will gain much more room for entrance over that WYE. Again though, I don't believe it meets clearance codes for any area. But you may be playing plumbing p-o-k-e-r with the hand that you are dealt. I don't know the whole layout.

[kmuddzy]

Put a 2" C.O. or "Test Tee" above the floor. The 2" horizontal 90 looks back-pitched to me by the way.

Thanks for your reply.

I can't put a C.O. or Test Tee above the floor since it is a finished floor - unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. The 1st pic is of the 3" elbows before they join the 2nd pic. But you are correct - it is back-pitched and that's because it isn't glued since I'm still concept fitting these together.

So I'm guessing based upon your reply that I do need a clean out in a 22 foot long horizontal run?

Thanks again!

[Plumber111]

Behind the horizontal 2" Long Sweep 90 there is a vertical 2" Long Sweep 90 that continues through the floor. The pipe that connects to that must continue as a combination drain/vent. Simply put a Charlotte 440X in the vertical pipe above the floor or in the cabinet. However the pipe is ran, the finished floor should have no bearing as the vertical 2" piping is continuing somewhere.

Yes, a 22' run should such as this should have a cleanout in my opinion regardless if it is minimum code or not.

[kmuddzy]

Behind the horizontal 2" Long Sweep 90 there is a vertical 2" Long Sweep 90 that continues through the floor. The pipe that connects to that must continue as a combination drain/vent. Simply put a Charlotte 440X in the vertical pipe above the floor or in the cabinet. However the pipe is ran, the finished floor should have no bearing as the vertical 2" piping is continuing somewhere.

Yes, a 22' run should such as this should have a cleanout in my opinion regardless if it is minimum code or not.

The pipes in the pics are 3". The 3" horizontal long sweep connected to the 3" vertical long sweep are at the bottom of my stack. Above the 3" vertical long sweep I placed a 3" Wye to provide a cleanout. This was my question: My 3" pipe does a horizontal "U" turn of 180degrees and the last bend in my "U" turn is only 6 feet from my stack clean-out. Do I need another cleanout in my U-turn?

[Plumber111]

Ahhh....3". Scale kind of fools my eyes.

Stack clean-out 6' away from the "U-Turn" and it's PVC/DWV. Don't know if it's code for your area but any skilled drain cleaner should not have a problem with that setup.

And again, you can put a 3" 444X Tee downstream and it can be cleared both ways. Understand?

[Hackney plumbing]

Why do you have a U turn in the pipe? You wouldn't be connecting to an existing fitting in the stack would you?

[Plumber111]

To tell you the truth Hackney, I get confused at the description.

But I think he can just take out the WYE C.O. he has in and install a C.O. Tee. It counts both ways towards the degree limit. (At least in some areas.)

Then, all done.

[kmuddzy]

QUOTE: "And again, you can put a 3" 444X Tee downstream and it can be cleared both ways. Understand? "

I think I do understand. I just wasn't sure if I was allowed by code to put a cleanout downstream if the total horizontal change was over 135 degrees. I absolutely agree that functionally it would work and any skilled drain cleaner would easily clear any normal blockage.

Why do you have a U turn in the pipe? You wouldn't be connecting to an existing fitting in the stack would you?

The stack is new and it collects new 2nd floor plumbing from a new addition we are adding onto an existing house. I must run the stack down into the addition's crawl space and then turn it into the exsiting basement to tie into the existing sewer line. I have beam posts & existing floor joists in the way so I must do a "U turn" to get round these and then back to the 3" sewer main. I know this is hard to follow without seeing it but I think I'm getting my layout together. We will see in a couple weeks what the inspector says.

Thanks!!!