14/3 strange usage

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BobL43

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Actually the water heater does not have a neutral. Just two 120v hots and a ground.
What made you bring up a water heater? That is a 240 volt device, where it draws current from the two hot legs, and nothing from the neutral unless it somehow had a fancy 115v control unit on it.


never mind, this has already been said:eek:
 

Hackney plumbing

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Correct. The timer and such usually take 120v. This is true of many 240v circuits (such as a range). Pure 240v circuits (like a WH) only need the 2 hots and a ground.

So if you have an old house wired for a dryer with two hot and a ground the new dryers wouldn't work at all or would they work but not be safe?
 

BobL43

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So if you have an old house wired for a dryer with two hot and a ground the new dryers wouldn't work at all or would they work but not be safe?
The older ciruits had 2 hots and a Neutral for the Dryer power
most likely using 10/3 kleenex without ground. The new dryers (and ranges) are supposed to be wired with nn/3 (nn= proper sized conductors) plus ground kleenex and a 4 prong plug and receptacle.
The ground on the old stuff was added to the frame of the dryer by the installer to a "safe" (not really) water pipe nearby
 

Hackney plumbing

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I think I'm ready to wire YOUR house now.....LOL Just kidding thanks for the tips.

My house was built in 2000. I'll be removing my panel cover and making sure any multibranch circuit is done with a double pole breaker.
 
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Jadnashua

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Maybe this will help...
 

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Ballvalve

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America is in the dark ages with electricity. Europe, even Africa wires all for 240V and the timers and controls [DUH!] in appliances are built for 240V. Now you are outlet wiring with 16 and 18 gauge wire and don't need a neutral.

When copper was cheap and the US made it all, the copper lobby won. We all lost.

Notice that at least the Americans are smart enough to sell electric water heater timers that have a [MAGIC!] clock that runs on 240V, so you need not pull in another totally unneeded wire. Imagine the audacity of making a 240V lightbulb!
 
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America is in the dark ages with electricity. Europe, even Africa wires all for 240V and the timers and controls [DUH!] in appliances are built for 240V. Now you are outlet wiring with 16 and 18 gauge wire and don't need a neutral.

The one difference being that most of the electricity that we see in our houses is 110v, yes, and that is a lot easier to let go of it if gets you than is 220v.

I have a vague memory from the late '60's when I lived on an airforce base in Britain. I was very young. I seem to remember a TV show explaining the workings of a GFI outlet and saying that they would becoming a standard. But it could have been a few years later in the states.
 

hj

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IN a perfectly balanced split feed, the neutral is not carrying any current. It is "alternating current" and the two lines are 180 degrees out of phase, so when one's black wire is "+" the other's is "-" so they cancel each other out. The neutral takes care of any imbalance.
 

hj

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wire

I have heard, but do not know if it is fact, that homes in Australia only have a single 240 volt wire coming into the houses. The return to the generator is done with a "ground connection" into the earth.
 

Drick

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I have heard, but do not know if it is fact, that homes in Australia only have a single 240 volt wire coming into the houses. The return to the generator is done with a "ground connection" into the earth.


Power HAS TO return to where it came from. The earth is a really really lousy conductor. Sticking a ground rod outside your house will not allow the power to travel through the earth to another ground rod at the power plant. The ground rod is there for protection in the event of a lightening strike.

-rick
 

BobL43

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I have heard, but do not know if it is fact, that homes in Australia only have a single 240 volt wire coming into the houses. The return to the generator is done with a "ground connection" into the earth.

That is simply "shocking" LOL. Drick is correct, there must be something missing in what you heard that provides the return; guess I'll have to Google it.
 
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Heh, well I guess that shows you what I know. I'd never heard of it before now. Thanks for the link.

-rick

"A good earth connection is normally a 6 m stake of copper-clad steel driven vertically into the ground"

6 meters is about 20'. Imagine trying to drive that damned thing in with a sledge?
 

BobL43

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It's called Single Wire Earth Return http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWER
Yes, but most of that if not all, is used for medium or high voltage power grid or transmission lines over long distances. In the US, the grid is multiphase, with transformers used for the user's voltages and neutrals that are tapped off the transformer and grounded locally. The ground itself here, at least does not carry any power. I would not my house powered with a single phase and returned to ground though a lake, nor would I want 220v receptacles in my house for our normal plug in appliances. This conversation is still shocking, but interesting.

Thanks Dave for that info.:)
 
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