(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 46

Thread: 14/3 strange usage

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackney plumbing View Post
    Jim mentioned I really dont have 120 coming into the house but if I measure the voltage at an outlet thats what I get. How is that possible if I do not have 120 coming into the house?
    because when you measure the voltage at that outlet, you are measuring from the Neutral to the hot leg at that outlet.
    If that 2 pole breaker had a 1000 watt load on each pole of the breaker, the 2 loads would wind up being in series with each other fed by 240 volts, and the neutral would be handling little, if any current.
    If one breaker had 1000 watt load on it, and the other pole of that breaker had a 250 watt load on it, then the neutral would be carrying the current for 750 watts at 120 volts 6.25 amps. If the 250 watt load was disconnected, then the Neutral would be carrying the full 1000 watt current at 120 volts 8.33 amps
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  2. #17
    Homeowner
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,174
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL43 View Post
    because when you measure the voltage at that outlet, you are measuring from the Neutral to the hot leg at that outlet.
    If that 2 pole breaker had a 1000 watt load on each pole of the breaker, the 2 loads would wind up being in series with each other fed by 240 volts, and the neutral would be handling little, if any current.
    If one breaker had 1000 watt load on it, and the other pole of that breaker had a 250 watt load on it, then the neutral would be carrying the current for 750 watts at 120 volts 6.25 amps. If the 250 watt load was disconnected, then the Neutral would be carrying the full 1000 watt current at 120 volts 8.33 amps
    Actually the water heater does not have a neutral. Just two 120v hots and a ground.

  3. #18
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    696

    Default

    That is because the WH is a 240v device. If it also needed 120v for something, it would also need a neutral to create a 120v source.

  4. #19
    Homeowner
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,174
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman View Post
    That is because the WH is a 240v device. If it also needed 120v for something, it would also need a neutral to create a 120v source.
    My dryer takes 240 but it has a neutral. Maybe somthing inside it requires 120?

  5. #20
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    696

    Default

    Correct. The timer and such usually take 120v. This is true of many 240v circuits (such as a range). Pure 240v circuits (like a WH) only need the 2 hots and a ground.

  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackney plumbing View Post
    Actually the water heater does not have a neutral. Just two 120v hots and a ground.
    What made you bring up a water heater? That is a 240 volt device, where it draws current from the two hot legs, and nothing from the neutral unless it somehow had a fancy 115v control unit on it.


    never mind, this has already been said
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  7. #22
    Homeowner
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,174
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman View Post
    Correct. The timer and such usually take 120v. This is true of many 240v circuits (such as a range). Pure 240v circuits (like a WH) only need the 2 hots and a ground.
    So if you have an old house wired for a dryer with two hot and a ground the new dryers wouldn't work at all or would they work but not be safe?

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackney plumbing View Post
    So if you have an old house wired for a dryer with two hot and a ground the new dryers wouldn't work at all or would they work but not be safe?
    The older ciruits had 2 hots and a Neutral for the Dryer power
    most likely using 10/3 kleenex without ground. The new dryers (and ranges) are supposed to be wired with nn/3 (nn= proper sized conductors) plus ground kleenex and a 4 prong plug and receptacle.
    The ground on the old stuff was added to the frame of the dryer by the installer to a "safe" (not really) water pipe nearby
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  9. #24
    Homeowner
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,174
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I think I'm ready to wire YOUR house now.....LOL Just kidding thanks for the tips.

    My house was built in 2000. I'll be removing my panel cover and making sure any multibranch circuit is done with a double pole breaker.
    Last edited by Hackney plumbing; 02-21-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,412

    Default

    Maybe this will help...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    Homeowner
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,174
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Maybe this will help...
    I found a great explanation that I posted a few posts back. Really makes it clear. Thanks for the effort tho.

    Its the last post on the first page. A guy name David Herres wrote the article.
    Last edited by Hackney plumbing; 02-22-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  12. #27
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    northfork, california
    Posts
    3,261

    Default

    America is in the dark ages with electricity. Europe, even Africa wires all for 240V and the timers and controls [DUH!] in appliances are built for 240V. Now you are outlet wiring with 16 and 18 gauge wire and don't need a neutral.

    When copper was cheap and the US made it all, the copper lobby won. We all lost.

    Notice that at least the Americans are smart enough to sell electric water heater timers that have a [MAGIC!] clock that runs on 240V, so you need not pull in another totally unneeded wire. Imagine the audacity of making a 240V lightbulb!

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    505

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballvalve View Post
    America is in the dark ages with electricity. Europe, even Africa wires all for 240V and the timers and controls [DUH!] in appliances are built for 240V. Now you are outlet wiring with 16 and 18 gauge wire and don't need a neutral.
    The one difference being that most of the electricity that we see in our houses is 110v, yes, and that is a lot easier to let go of it if gets you than is 220v.

    I have a vague memory from the late '60's when I lived on an airforce base in Britain. I was very young. I seem to remember a TV show explaining the workings of a GFI outlet and saying that they would becoming a standard. But it could have been a few years later in the states.

  14. #29
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,655

    Default

    IN a perfectly balanced split feed, the neutral is not carrying any current. It is "alternating current" and the two lines are 180 degrees out of phase, so when one's black wire is "+" the other's is "-" so they cancel each other out. The neutral takes care of any imbalance.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  15. #30
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,655

    Default wire

    I have heard, but do not know if it is fact, that homes in Australia only have a single 240 volt wire coming into the houses. The return to the generator is done with a "ground connection" into the earth.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

Similar Threads

  1. spike in ng usage
    By trw888 in forum Water Heater Forum, Tanks
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 08:58 PM
  2. Pump Usage
    By sapruitt in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-09-2008, 03:42 PM
  3. well usage
    By rbig in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-16-2008, 04:45 PM
  4. How to reduce my KWH usage?
    By ffmedic7 in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-29-2006, 10:58 AM
  5. Greywater usage
    By citykid in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-29-2006, 03:32 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •