PEX and Freezing

[master plumber mark]

I have heard that WIRSBO PEX will not break
or crack even when frozen.......

it will supposidely swell up to about three times its size
but will thaw out without breaking


is this true???


the reason I am asking is I got a builder that
decided not to heat a crawl space after I have installed
the all the Worsbo water lines in the crawl....

originally the funace was to be in the cellar, but then she decided
after the rough was completely done to install the furnace in the attic
(against my protests)

of course they were warned a dozen times about this with their furnace
man as my witness too,

but opted not to run any heat to the crawl space when they had the chance to for only a few hundred dollars more....


I have been paid for the rough ,
thats about all that is good about this job

and its about 10 outside right now....


I cant wait to see what happens....


I have seen the vanguard type of pex freeze and break
but was jsut wondering about any experiences
with the WIRSBO type

[Cass]

Mark, I am in Dayton / Cincy area and work on crawls a lot that have no heat in them and they never freeze. The most important thing is that there are no openings to the outside. The ground heat should be enough to keep it from freezing.

I am also interested about the freezeability of PEX as I just started using it. I bought a nice set of brand new Zurn crimpers and gauge off that fameous auction site. Got a 1/2 and 3/4 (not the combo unit)for $124.00 delivered. Can't beat that.

[master plumber mark]

I have seen other brands of pex freeze and break,
but the Wirsbo is not supposed to break when flrozen..
their are no joints in the crawl , just long runs to bathrooms.

but whatever happens , its certanly not my problem to buttom up that
crawl space.....
and I dont think that the ground heat is going to be
able to keep it warm enough...especially when you can see cracks of light
comming through the bricks all around the crawl space,


I doubt they heeded my warning and
did a good job,, if any ,, of insualteing that
16 inch tight crawl splace.--



I am just a dumb ass fool plumber with concrens about the job
and they are the contractors with the money that know it all ,
already....

at least untill the trouble starts...


but I have already been paid,
so let the chips fall where they may

[Terry]

In the Seattle area, they may you insulate the pipe in the crawlspace.

However, unless the pipe in right in front of a vent, they don't even when they're not insulated.

I had one house that the owner had turned the heat off and left for out of state.
Thirteen copper breaks above the first floor,
and none in the crawlspace.
The floors were a mess, with all that water everywhere.

The floor had insulation, but the pipe didn't.
The insulation on the floor must have kept the heat from the ground trapped.

[master plumber mark]

In Indiana its not code to insulate pipes in
crawl spaces......

In the situatioin I am talking about
the contractor told me that they would be
installing heat runs into the drafty crawl space
of this nasty old dump shanty...and insualte it too...

the water lines and drain lines were installed
before the floors were still not nailed down
on about a 10-16 inch crawl space.....


then after I got it all roughed in in WIRSBO,
and the floors are nailed down , walls built ect ect,
they change their minds.........and opt to
run the heat only to the rooms.....


I suppose in hindsight if I had known , I could have
run everything in the rafters and dropped down
to the two bathrooms and made them
blow in more insualtion


Of course its too late to worry about it now.
I got the money and they got the troubles....which was their
choice,..... not mine.
..
I doubt I will even get to finish the job, as much as they are trying
to pinch pennies,
they will probably find a handy man and go
to LOWES and buy their own fixtures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its more of a morbid curosity from me
as to what will happen to the WIRSBO home runs


So TERRY ---I KNOW that they will freeze

but when they get a salamander in to heat the crawl
up and thaw it all out will the WIRSBO be broken too??




Your opinion please

,

[Terry]

I haven't had a chance to freeze it yet.

Maybe someone else has done this.

[master plumber mark]

thanks anyway, I heard it said that it
just swells up like a sausage....


will post some pictures when I get to go back out

[jadnashua]

Considering that you expand it a fair amount with the connecting tool to make the fitting slide in and that water doesn't expand that much, my guess is that it should not split the tubing.

[dubldare]

In over ten years of running Aquapex, I've yet to hear of, or see a freeze break.

[Cass]

Good info here

http://www.roth-usa.com/usa/pdf/Inst...dbook_2005.pdf

[master plumber mark]

I will let you know soon how it turns out


the job is now being finished and the water
line has been live to the manifold in the mechanical room
for a few months now.....


For fun I will probably take my digital camera into
the crawl space and take a few pics of the pipe...


its presently about 35 deg outside so hopefully the pipe
thaws out