Well Pump Won't Stop Pumping After Dry Condition

**JohnHaas** · 02-05-2012, 09:00 AM

About four night's ago the tank on one of our toilets failed to seal after a flush, and the water stayed running all night.

In the morning, nothing came out of our faucets.

I turned the breaker off for the well pump for a couple hours and then reset the breaker and we had water again shortly after that.

The problem is, ever since, water pressure has remained pretty low, and gets even lower after much use at all. According to the Pumptec, the pump is continuing to run non-stop and intermittently "trips", which I believe means there is no water in the well to pump.

Our system:
WellMate WM-6 Tank
Pumptec Model 5800020116

The gauge on the WellMate is reading 37 PSI.

A bit of History:
The well was new in 2003. It's very deep, I was told 600 ft. It wasn't flowing very well at the time,so it was hydro-fractured. Even after that it hasn't been great. Over the years, the PUMPTEC does periodically trip, but it's been manageable, as long as we don't all take excessively long showers after multiple loads of laundry and watering the lawn, etc. The quality of the water is great!

Also I should mention that we're in Vermont, so we have sub-freezing temperatures this time of year, if that might be an issue.

Any idea how I might get the tank to pump up to full pressure?

-John

**LLigetfa** · 02-05-2012, 09:20 AM

I assume by Pumptec, you mean a Franklin motor protector and that you don't say what pump you have. If the pump is barely capable of lifting water 600 feet and make pressure as well, it could dead-head when the water level drops. I don't know how well the Pumptec protects against a dead-head situation but it sounds like your pump is no longer capable of doing the job and needs replacement. Of course it would be good to know where the water level is at. If after you pull the pump, when you drop in a new one, tape a length of 1/4" poly pipe to it so that you can use it later to determine the height of the water.

**JohnHaas** · 02-05-2012, 09:52 AM

Thanks for your reply - what you say makes sense to me. I assume there's no way to recover from the dead-head condition other than replacing the pump.

You are correct about the Pumptec being the Franklin motor protector, but I have no information on the pump itself, so I can't help with that.

Thanks again for your help,

John

**LLigetfa** · 02-05-2012, 10:23 AM

I'm sorry to hear that you will likely incur such a high cost just 9 years in. One would hope for a longer run than that.

A pump that dead-heads draws more current than a pump that sucks air, so the Pumptec needs to be much more sensitive to that condition. It sounds like you don't have enough pump for the well and/or the Pumptec was not calibrated well enough causing a dead-head situation to shorten its life.

Here is an excerpt from Franklin's doucument.
http://www.franklin-electric.com/med...s/vol16no5.pdf

Franklin Electric’s Pumptec and QD Pumptec are No-Load or Out-of-Water sensors.
Not all pumps react the same under deadhead conditions as they do in actual broken suction or
out of water conditions. Deadheaded pumps can still load the motor sufficiently to satisfy the
Pumptec and QD Pumptec, so they are not guaranteed to trip in this situation.

**JohnHaas** · 02-05-2012, 04:03 PM

Thanks for the additional info (and your sympathy for my situation)!

Nine years though - it's worse than that! We had the pump replaced just two or three years ago. They must have replaced the original pump with one equally insufficient. That first replacement was under warranty. I don't know if I'll be as fortunate this time.

-John

**ballvalve** · 02-05-2012, 04:08 PM

Where is the evidence that this pump was 'dead headed' ? - running but not moving water? If the toilet was on, the pump drew down to air and the pumptek should have shut off. It still works, so its not dead, just low pressure.

Where did the assumption that the pump is inadequate for the water depth come from?

The guy needs a big storage tank and a flow into it that is a bit less than the wells production. He can still do that with 37 or even 1 psi at the surface, then another pump. I would not get ready for a pump pull for some time before better testing.

**LLigetfa** · 02-05-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by ballvalve

Where is the evidence that this pump was 'dead headed' ? - running but not moving water?.

No evidence, just conjecture based on what info John provided. Without being there, conjecture is all we have.

If the pump continues to run but the pressure does not reach cutoff and there is no water being consumed, it is essentially deadheaded. If the pump was set shallow enough to not deadhead, it should have sucked air and the Pumptec should have tripped out. When reset, if it again sucks air, it should trip out, not run deadheaded.

If the pump was set deep enough to deadhead, then shame on the installer.

**JohnHaas** · 02-05-2012, 06:56 PM

Maybe I should clarify. The Pumptec has two lights on it - Green "Power On" and Red "Tripped". Under normal operation, when the tank is fully pressurized, both lights are off. Since the "Toilet Incident", the green "Power On" light is on all the time, and the red "Tripped" light is on *most* of the time. It does go off periodically, and the comes back on. The green light now never goes out. I *assume* when the green light is on and the red is off the pump is running. We are getting some flow from the well, just not a lot. I plan to call the company who installed it, in the morning.

Thanks again for the help.

**Texas Wellman** · 02-05-2012, 07:13 PM

Your definition of dead head isn't the same as mine.

Originally Posted by LLigetfa

No evidence, just conjecture based on what info John provided. Without being there, conjecture is all we have.

If the pump continues to run but the pressure does not reach cutoff and there is no water being consumed, it is essentially deadheaded. If the pump was set shallow enough to not deadhead, it should have sucked air and the Pumptec should have tripped out. When reset, if it again sucks air, it should trip out, not run deadheaded.

If the pump was set deep enough to deadhead, then shame on the installer.

**Waterwelldude** · 02-05-2012, 08:04 PM

A 1hp pump would (deadhead) at about 490'. That is from a water level of 490'
At that depth the water would stop and not flow any higher or build anymore pressure at the well head.
This is based on an 8gpm residential submersible.

**LLigetfa** · 02-05-2012, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Texas Wellman

Your definition of dead head isn't the same as mine.

Yet you don't offer your definition.

**JohnHaas** · 02-05-2012, 08:58 PM

I found the invoice for the pump replacement back in 2006 (so the original was less than three years old at the time, and it was longer ago than I thought).

1HP 320V, 2 Wire 1PH Franklin Pump Motor
"Pump is set at 580 feet"

So based on Waterwelldude's comments, it's not wonder these pumps are failing.

**Texas Wellman** · 02-06-2012, 08:24 AM

It would be helpful to know the GPM of the pump.

**LLigetfa** · 02-06-2012, 10:42 AM

A worn pump can deadhead at a lower pressure than the same pump new. It could be a combination of wear and lower water level that is manifesting the problem now.

Originally Posted by ballvalve

The guy needs a big storage tank and a flow into it that is a bit less than the wells production. He can still do that with 37 or even 1 psi at the surface, then another pump. I would not get ready for a pump pull for some time before better testing.

Yes, the existing pump could provide a few more years of service pumping into a non-pressurized storage tank. 37 PSI of head is equal to about 86 feet of depth.

Given that John said he waters his lawn with the well, it can't be too bad but then the water level may fluctuate. It would be good to know just how much the well can produce and what the water level is.