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Thread: iron in well water

  1. #16
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Good to know that none of my points had any validity.

    Your snide remarks about how I am from California so how could I know about water elsewhere...
    I didn't specify what part about lead I was unaware of; it is the new regs as of 2010 that you mentioned. The rest of what you said has nothing to do with my belief that there is no medical basis for the regs. If you see them as snide remarks, they weren't meant to be snide remarks. And I didn't say anything about you being from CA or your level of knowledge about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    FYI, I am not some dumb guy who read some info on the internet about water treatment and decided to voice my opinion. I bring 25 years of extensive knowledge to this board. I have current certifications, licenses, and have worked with equipment througout the world. Comprehensive water testing is not taken lightly anywhere I have been but here. And only in single family applications.
    I have no idea where your dumb guy reading things on the internet comes from but it isn't from anything I've said. Over the years there have been a few softener salesmen and well drillers, along with a couple plumbers that have accused me of being only a dumb guy that has read things on the internet.

    This is a DIYer forum. I have many years (going back to 1992) of communicating with homeowners that are DIYers or wannabees, my experience is that the vast majority of them are not wanting to spend $200 for a comprehensive water analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Once the water supply is going to go to more than a few houses, most states consider it a small municipal well that does fall under stringent water quality testing. I guess the logic is that the worst that will happen is only a few people will get ill, get cancer, etc.
    Yes I know, for many years as a local independent dealer I worked with and under the PA DEP regs collecting samples and testing water for compliance under their small community water system regs. I also was approved by the VA and FHA to do the tests they required and to sell, install and service remediation equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Your knowledge is consdierable and appreciated, but when someone disagrees with you, you go on the attack. Maybe you have been retired too long and have been unable to keep up with current regulations and studies showing long term affects caused by contaminantes in our drinking water.
    Thanks for the kind words. And yes I am appreciated by unknown numbers of people that post here and the unknown numbers that only have read my posts here and everywhere else I have posted for the last 15 years last month. But I don't understand why you appreciate my posts (but I'm starting to guess).

    What you see as an attack I see as presenting my thoughts and clarifying them when needed. I notice that you have made this debate personal while I have not said a word about you; good or bad.

    I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me that all private well owners need or should have a comprehensive water test and that the government should require them to get one. I say the government or better, dealers and salespeople should inform them of the potential for health related problems and let the homeowner decide what they want to do.

    I started doing that individually with my prospective customers in the late 1980s but the reception I got was not good. They saw it as a sales ploy to sell more equipment and I simply spoke to whatever concern or problems they had with their water except, I always did nitrates and Coliform bacteria tests for them (private well owners) at no charge. That was until I started selling over the internet in 2002 where I physically couldn't do it. I also tested for hardness, iron, manganese, sulfates, chlorides, pH, copper depending on the pH, TDS etc.. At no charge and with no obligation.

    BTW, you haven't shown me any "studies showing long term affects caused by contaminantes in our drinking water". And they should be done on private well water, not all drinking water.

    As to arsenic and such, I suggest separate tests for them as opposed to a $200 comprehensive test that you are for.

    As to liability, I don't see how a homeowner would be able to say I should have tested for something that they have no way of proving was in their water when they bought a softener or filter etc. from me. My defense would be that if they knew it was there and were concerned about it, why didn't they mention it and want to buy the remediation equipment from me when they bought other equipment from me. Until 2006 I kept a printed copy and database record of every water test I ever did. That included printed copies during a year that I worked for a large regional farm supply company running their water treatment department in 1989.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    So the best I can tell, you would go to a house that has a well, and because you didnt get a rash on your tongue when you tasted the water, it is safe for long term consumption? The well a few miles from here has been in use for 20 years, and the homeowners are fine so... The data is in about naturally occuring and man made pollution in the ground water supplies. Why would you risk it?
    Now my guesses about you are becoming more a reality but no, I learned not to drink or taste anything at a prospective customers' home after getting very sick after having a couple glasses of iced tea the first July I was in the business. Their water was initially TNC for Coliform bacteria and later proved to have E-coli after shocking the well and retesting.

    Without doing your tests, how does a dealer risk anything; what is his liability? Hell man, most are not licensed for more than driving a vehicle. You aren't one of those guys that want everyone licensed by the government to sell a softener are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    I ask again, with todays readily available technologies would you even consider going to a house that has a new well, doing a few basic tests, hardness, iron, tds, pH, and then install some basic equipment and tell the customer their water is now safe for drinking or bathing? Bathing includes showering which atomizes the water molecules and are then breathed into the lungs.
    I have never nor would I ever tell anyone their water was safe; even if I sold them all the equipment that would fit their available space to install it. I would tell them what the results of followup tests were and that they should make their own decision if they wanted to use the water and/or drink or cook with it. In a previous life to water treatment, I have an insurance background.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    I will answer the question for myself. Yes, I used to do that, 20 years ago. I would not even consider it today. Have you considered the liability of not doing proper and certified testing?
    Actually I have, see my comments above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    Gary, dont take things personally. I have been reading through the posts that have not been deleted, your ideas are for the most part excellent, your knowledge extensive, and you advice is top notch. It is obvious that you have been doing this for a long time. It is also apparent that you have been out of the field for a few years. Like electronics, the water field changes daily. I travel the world in an effort to remain at the top of my field, to continue to grow my knowledge of the industry, and to work with manufacturers on solutions for the future of our business. The new low lead requirements has caused the company I work for to design an entirely new product line based on these laws. They are not just for California, the EU, Canada, and now the entire US has adopted these rules, not to be a nanny state, but because the verdict is in, lead is not good for the human body, even in extremely low levels.
    Sorry, bless your heart, when you or others say something to me about me personally, one of my failings in life is that I've never been able to not take them personally. But I guess that's a bit better than you and some others here taking something personal that wasn't even said anyway...

    Yes I know of the problems with lead in the human body. I wonder what water companies will be doing about their lead problems due to their acidic water and lead service lines like were used due to plumbing codes in Chicago until something like the 1980s or 1990s. Or is the government finally getting their foot in the door of all private well owners as I have thought they wanted to do since the mid 1980s and especially since Water 2000 was it when the old Rural Electrification program was converted to looking into well water quality and running water lines all over and especially the west?

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    A side note, I got a test result in last week with the water guys request for equipment.

    The test results showed Bromide and iron along with a host of other trace contaminantes all within acceptable specs. This dealer regularly used ozone as part of the treamtent process and requested a quote on a large O3 system, along with various other pieces of equipment. Bromide and 03... had he not done the proper test, the bromide would not have been detected, and we would have created bromate and/or bromoform, which have extremerly low MCL levels. What would his liability have been?
    If any, his liability would be misapplication of equipment leading to a health related problem. Question, how would he and the homeowner have found his mistake and what do you suppose the homeowner's damages would be? Damages as in dollars lost. Second question... what do you think your employer's (or your) liability would be in selling him the O3 equipment had he not done the tests? Forgive me but I'm starting to wonder if the comprehensive testing isn't a CYA type thing driven by or for the manufacturers... I say that because I suppose that that dealer might turn toward those that sold him the equipment if he were to be sued in the future. Well the lawyers at his insurance company probably would.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  2. #17
    DIY Junior Member mrtmills's Avatar
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    I have not had my water tested yet as I am waiting for a friend to go into the nearest water testing location (200 km) with my water sample. However, the swampy smell of the water is entirely overbearing now and I am wondering what else could cause this smell besides IRB? The water comes out clear, then turns a little cloudy and orange and remains that way indefinitely. I thought IRB reduces iron down to a non-soluble form, and so the water would come out red. Seriously though, how could a well change so much in such a short time? The iron taste is constantly getting worse and worse and now it is nearly unbearable. Are there well treatment options available? I would not know who to call for that as the local water treatment people want to treat the water, not the well. I'll get the water tests posted as soon as I have them.
    thanks

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    The only think I know of that can treat water in the well is a chlorine pellet dropper. So far you don't know if you need to oxidize anything chlorine is used for or, how much of it is in the water.

    There can be serious and expensive problems in using a pellet dropper. It can make the water quality worse. It can cause pump, steal casing, metal drop pipe damage. And you'd still need at least a backwashing filter in the house to remove sediment caused by the chlorine and the chlorine from the water. And then maybe a softener to remove hardness.

    If chlorine is needed, you can use it in the house instead of the well.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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