Frozen well lines

Lets see if i can give you all the info you need to help me solve this issue.

we live in southwest montana at 7100 feet elevation. winters include many days of -20 to -30 degrees F. Our well is 180 feet deep (is actually considered a dry well and just seeps water slowly from around the bedrock). We just installed a submersible 120 volt submersible pump "goulds" which is connected to a 1" poly pipe which comes up above the ground level 1 foot. the well head is enclosed in an uninsulated well house at the is time. we are not piped to the house (will have to blast bedrock to get deep enough) so we are using layflat hoses to pump twice weekly 200 gal's from this well into our large storage tanks. Obviously we must roll up and bring inside the hoses after each pumping exercise to prevent freezing. Our problem is that the poly tubing which has a faucet attached to it freezes in the well hole. The hole which is basically open with pipes and wires coming out gets very cold, being at ground level and everything is very frosty. I do not know how deep down into the hole the water in the poly pipe is frozen. Usually takes about 2 hours of running a hair blow dryer into the hole to defrost enough to pump (at least this is true when it is above zero outside). It seems to me we need to find a way to drain the water standing in the poly pipe back into the well at least down 10-15 feet where it wont just re-freeze after each time we pump? I have seen "drain back air valves" that are 3/4 inche and threaded which allow air to get into a pipe (i think) but i do not see how this would drain our pipe. Please advise what I need to get for this 1" poly pipe, where to install it etc. thanks so much , kathleen

Let me first say I am not a well professional. What I would do if I were in your shoes is build a wooden box 3'X3'X3' and insulate the inside of it with 10"-15" thick of styrofoam and use the insulation foam for any cracks. When this is done take the box and center it over the well head that is sticking up and make sure it is tight to the ground, no air gaps. The styrofoam should contact the ground also so basicly you have a giant insulation cube. This might work.

If I understand you correctly, you could simply pull the pump up about 5-6 feet and drill a small hole in the poly pipe to bleed the water back before it freezes when you shut the pump off. Then when you get ready to hook it to the house, you are going to need a pitless adaptor I would think and will have to pull the pump to install the pitless. At that time, eliminate the drilled hole.

bob...

"What do you do when someone wants a well that will drain back for frost purposes? Do you drill a hole in the check, remove it all together, or drill a hole in the column pipe? Why?

I have thought it a good idea to drill to holes in the drop pipe opposing each other. Place a wire through these holes and bend the wire so that it cannot fall out. The wire will keep water from coming out the holes under pressure so bad. The wire will jiggle as water flows by and keep rust from clogging the hole. Also, the wire should disrupt the drain back so that the water trickles down the drop pipe rather than squirting against the casing. Any thoughts?"

from post # 53 check valve . . .

Drain Back Air Valves

Drain back air valves are little ball seals inside a tee that are spring loaded to be open. They are usually installed in pairs in the vertical pipe so that the upper one will admit air to the pipe while the lower one drains water. They work on the principle that the low pressure and flow during drain-back will not close the valve against the seal, but when the pump comes on the pressure and flow are great enough to close them against the spring. The idea is to trap the air between the two valves so it will be discharged into the tank.

They are used where submersible pumps are used to pump into a non-bladder tank to maintain the air in the tank. I haven't seen one in years.

I think the hole in the pipe will work. You are probably not pumping against great pressure so it won't leak much during pumping. If you were using it a lot you could get erosion of the hole and of the place where the jet is hitting.

I don't know what the cost of blasting is, but if I were out in the country with so little water usage I would take a hard look at putting an insulated/heated or backdrain/blowdown pipe on top of the rock, unless the rock is just a local thing in a long run. They run water lines above the permafrost in Alaska.

If you have steel cased well a pin hole can cause mineral buildup problems or rusting problems. I have seen wells both rust out where the drain back hole water hits the casing as well as extreme mineral deposits that cause the pump to get stuck in that area. I am sure that you could rig up something to deflect the water.

A piece of pvc pipe hose clamped over the hole works real good. I just haven't figured out how to keep them from plugging up over time. That's why I'm looking at your wire idea so hard.

bob...