Cleaning mineral deposits from Sanigloss

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

I am an all Toto house. My well water is not generally nasty enough to warrant treatment. But it does have minerals (calcium, and small amounts of manganese and iron). The problem I am trying to solve is build-up on my Sanigloss bowls.

The list from Toto of what not to use, effectively excludes every cleaner that is not pH neutral. For mineral removal, and acidic material is the usual solution (no pun intended). Bristly stick is not effective.

Does anyone know a safe method to remove this scale?

Terry · Jan 22, 2012

I've been using the liquid bowl cleaners from the grocery store.
The bowl downstairs, the oldest one, is shiny like the day I installed it. Clorex and Lysol

https://terrylove.com/pdf/cefiontect_instructions.pdf

• Use a mild dish detergent to clean your lavatory.
• Use a gel-based toilet bowl cleaner.
• Use a soft cloth to clean your lavatory.
• Use a soft-bristled plastic brush to clean your toilet.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

First off make sure the toilet gets flushed after every use. For customers who have problems or stains I use a product called "bar keepers friend" Its a white abrasive powder thats acidic. Works very well and is good for removing rust stains.

Terry · Jan 22, 2012

TOTO's specific instructions are

No powders, and no acid.

This is CEFIONTECT. Not your $80 builder special toilet.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

Terry said:
TOTO's specific instructions are

No powders, and no acid.

This is CEFIONTECT. Not your $80 builder special toilet.

Unless Toto will warranty it and give them a new bowl and if nothing else will clean it,I would use the bar keepers friend. Either that or pay for a replacement if you want a clean toilet without stains.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

I really don't want to argue with you Terry (you are sort of the god of plumbing), but I am holding the sheet from a Sanigloss I just opened and it says "acid or alkaline". So it is really saying neutral pH.

Hackney: I really would not want to violate two of the no-no's from Toto.

The Sanigloss process is dependent on nano-scale effects. Visual evaluation of the surface for "still shiny" is just not an appropriate metric. You are looking at maybe an electron microscope to effectively evaluate surface condition.

It would be very helpful if Toto provide a list of what can be used (generically) rather than a statement that excludes essentially all cleaning products likely to be used.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

This should really be cut and dry. Whats the harshest chemical used to clean the sanigloss surface? I dunno but Toto should. Call'um

Terry · Jan 22, 2012

The reason they haven't provided a list of products, is there has been no guarantee that the chemicals used, will stay the same.

If your bowl is being coated and you're happy, then I'm happy.
My bowl is nice and shiny. I'm happy too.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

Ok I visited the Toto website and found that you can use a mild dish detergent. I knew there had to be a simple answer. Basically if you dont keep the CEFIONTECT surface clean from the start and let things build up on the surface you cant use a strong cleaner.......so if a mild detergent will not clean it the surface may be ruined.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

Experimentally, a detergent is ineffective for mineral deposits. Maybe I am not trying hard enough. But I have not been successful.

Note that the statement from Toto indicates neutral pH. Yes they mention a mild dish detergent. But that pH statement eliminates most such materials. That is essentially unreasonable; but it is what they say. An effective (i.e. not cya) answer to this issue would be useful. And a mild detergent just does not seem to fix mineral deposits.

As I have mentioned in another post, looking shiny is not an effective measurement.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

alternety said:
Experimentally, a detergent is ineffective for mineral deposits. Maybe I am not trying hard enough. But I have not been successful.

Note that the statement from Toto indicates neutral pH. Yes they mention a mild dish detergent. But that pH statement eliminates most such materials. That is essentially unreasonable; but it is what they say. An effective (i.e. not cya) answer to this issue would be useful. And a mild detergent just does not seem to fix mineral deposits.

As I have mentioned in another post, looking shiny is not an effective measurement.

Yes and it also eliminates urinating in the toilet as urine is acidic.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

That is indeed true. Even the water provided in your house violates the specified requirements for cleaning the toilet. Sense anything wrong here? Toto needs to provide better guidance. One of my points (not necessarily obvious) is that the info from Toto is mostly useless CYA statements. They are simply telling us to not use anything (even distilled water I think) , without explaining what we can use.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

alternety said:
That is indeed true. Even the water provided in your house violates the specified requirements for cleaning the toilet. Sense anything wrong here? Toto needs to provide better guidance. One of my points (not necessarily obvious) is that the info from Toto is mostly useless CYA statements. They are simply telling us to not use anything (even distilled water I think) , without explaining what we can use.

I wouldn't worry too much about damaging a surface thats not working for you. I'd get it clean and if I ruined it,I'd buy a regular toilet without any special finish and clean it regular with clorox cleanup.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

Thanks, but that does not really address the issue. Your suggestion, in my opinion, is not useful.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

alternety said:
Thanks, but that does not really address the issue. Your suggestion, in my opinion, is not useful.

So what do you suggest we do? You have said yourself Toto will not approve of any cleaners. Your toilet has mineral deposits So its either disregard Totos instructions or live with a mineral stained toilet.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

I am not sure why you seem to be taking an antagonistic approach here. What I would like is for Toto to take responsibility for realistically specifying what materials can be used on their Sanigloss surface in common environments. Their published guidelines are complete crap. They provide absolutely no useful information (assuming you actually read and properly interpret their statements using accepted English syntax and meaning) on maintenance of the surface in frequently experienced environments.

Hackney plumbing · Jan 22, 2012

alternety said:
I am not sure why you seem to be taking an antagonistic approach here. What I would like is for Toto to take responsibility for realistically specifying what materials can be used on their Sanigloss surface in common environments. Their published guidelines are complete crap. They provide absolutely no useful information (assuming you actually read and properly interpret their statements using accepted English syntax and meaning) on maintenance of the surface in frequently experienced environments.

Its really simple. They state use a mild dish washing detergent. I've seen dishwashing detergent that claims to be mild,so thats what I'd clean it with. If it failed to come clean and no other cleaners were approved to use I would assume that either I have a defective toilet or I have bad enough water that CEFIONTECT couldn't prevent the stains.

I'm not Toto so I'm of limited value but I'm offering my professional opinion and I assume thats why your here posting.

TJanak · Jan 22, 2012

alternety, you seem like an intelligent guy. Mineral deposits, namely calcium and magnesium, are alkaline in pH. I don't know of a good way to chemically dissolve alkaline deposits except for using an acid. There may be some but I don't know of them. I will gladly accept any suggestions.

It's kind of like my two new tile shower surrounds. I go over and read at the john bridge tile forums and he says to use an alkaline cleaner for the grout. Makes sense because the grout is alkaline in pH. But when you are like my parents and have very hard water (calcium), you are left with using an acidic cleaner. Again, as far as I know. That is why after 24 years my parents tile shower surround has no grout left, from using Lime Away cleaner (acidic).

I think you either live with it or use a non-approved cleaner. Sanigloss is slick enough for $#@& not to stick but I don't think it has a chance against mineral deposits.

Terry · Jan 22, 2012

Geez, I sell a ton of the CEFIONTECT bowls in the Seattle area. Most of them use bowl cleaners. I don't see the problem here.

If I had sold you the bowl, I would have advised you to use a bowl cleaner.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Sometimes you have to do something. Thinking is nice, but it doesn't get anything done.

I certainly wouldn't have waited until the bowl was all scummed up to do something about it.

Alternety · Jan 22, 2012

I have tried detergents; as noted above. It does not appear to work for mineral deposits. Which is what started this thread. I have cleaned them only with a brush and that worked fine for normal dirt. Sanigloss does seem to make a difference. But the mineral deposits were not frightened by that approach. I briefly used a cleaner then read about not using that so I stopped. A mild acid (maybe citric or acetic) would probably fix the deposits. You are saying that long term use of cleaners seems to have no affect on the Sanigloss. Maybe Toto's cautions are just lawyers doing CYA.

I will try a chemical cleaner on one and see if there is any discernible effect. It is not that I don't believe you Terry; I just like to see things for myself. Oddly, your point about thinking has been mentioned by my wife from time to time. She is also fond of "if it can be done, it can be overdone".

Thanks everyone for your views and information.

Cleaning mineral deposits from Sanigloss

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