pressure balanced vs thermostatic valves (1/2 inch vs 3/4 inch)

[johnfrwhipple]

I have not had enough showers to choose one over another but I can tell you the showers with lower flow rates do not make my clients happy.

This rain head was not making the grade and then the client requested the shower restrictor removed. My plumber did and the net result is a wonderful full stream of water.

JW

[Shawn_T]

Hi John - If I finish off my steam shower by using Noble Seal TS, would I just continue from where the liner stops on the top of the bench or would I have to bring it right down to the floor over top of the liner? Are there any other products that I would need to go along with the Nobleseal TS and the Noblesealant 150?

Also, did you happen to hear back from Derek or Joe about the GreenEboard?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[johnfrwhipple]

Sorry Shawn.

I haven't had a chance to try Joe back. With regards to using Noble and a traditional liner I might suggest you email Eric @ Noble and check with the head tech himself.

I have always build my steamers with a full topical water/vapour barrier approach so I have no first hand experience with a hybrid method.

Eric Edelmayer <eric@noblecompany.com> If he dosen't know then no one will.

Send Eric a link to this thread so he can see your pictures.

For what it's worth I might scrap the liner and go all Noble Seal TS. This will save you the trouble of wire lathing and mudding the bench. If that doesn't sounding appealing then email Michael Getzlaf <canadian.mosaic@shaw.ca> from Laticrete and he can help walk you through a Laticrete install.

We are starting up a new steam project on Davie and Beach in a couple weeks. Full Thermasol Steam shower kit with sound and chromotherapy lighting!!! Just got the call today.

"The Steam is Dream!"

JW

[johnfrwhipple]

I managed to track Joe down yesterday and he was kind enough to free up some time for me and all my questions.

You'll love this. Joe has had a sheet of Green EBoard in his truck for almost two years. Rain, Snow, Car Washes ....

He has asked his technical crew to do a further study on the subject before confirming to me one way or another. That is what I like to hear from my manufactures - not a sales pitch but let us double and triple check the facts.

As for your project right now I think you need to follow the TTMAC recommendations for a steam shower build. The specs from Laticrete on a Hydro ban shower are great ones to use as a resource.

Or rip out the liner in now and go full Noble Seal TS and follow Noble Companies spec sheet.

I would do the later. We are not fond of using any backer board cementious or otherwise in a shower with no topical waterproofing measures.

[Shawn_T]

Thanks for asking Joe all the questions John. My GreenEboard has been sitting outside (not in the rain) for about 4 months and looks the same as it did the day I bought it. I like the fact that Joe has had his through rain, snow and car washes.

I think I will go with your suggestion and order some Noble Seal TS instead of using the Hydro Ban. Some of the Noble Seal instructions recommend to install the Noble Seal TS behind the backer board instead of over top (although you can install it over top, except for the ceiling). Most of the examples I see are installed over top. Would you think I should install it over top of my GreenEboard or behind? It seems like over top would be the much easier way.

My shower dimensions are 3ft x 5ft with 8ft ceiling. This includes a bench. I am going to order 33 feet of Noble Seal TS. From your experience, do you think I will need more than three tubes of Noble Sealant 150?

Do you think I will need more than 2 gallons of Nobleseal EXT?

Do you think I should buy the preformed inside corners, or just form the corners myself?

Can you think of anything else I will need that I haven't mentioned? I am going to place the order right away because I am going down to Washington in a couple of weeks and will pick everything up then.

Thanks again. Your feedback has been very helpful.

[johnfrwhipple]

Shawn I do not think Noble EXT is approved for steam showers. Check this with Eric. I would be using a top of the line modified thin set and not EXT product from Noble.

As for installing the Noble Seal TS on top or behind the Green EBoard on the ceiling I have always installed it on top and not behind. We use modified thin set and give it a good length of time to cure before tiling. I think Noble wants you to install it behind the backer board - I'm not sure exactly why. To cover all your bases you might consider doing all the walls in Green EBoard and then covering with Noble Seal TS (including the ceiling). Then use Super Panel for the ceiling with proper cement board screws.

I have always build my steamers with the vapour barrier on top of the backer boards. Perhaps I have always built them wrong? I just looked up the steamer specs this morning in my TCNA guidelines and there is no mention of the waterproofing going behind the backer board. Email Eric and ask this question Eric Edelmayer <eric@noblecompany.com>.

I do not like the idea of a backer board taking on water or steam anywhere my shower construction.

When installing Noble Seal TS on the ceiling make sure you have an extra pair of hands. My last steamer in China Town I tried troweling the Noble Seal TS first with thin set and then installing it on the ceiling. This worked great but it is easier have a second pair of hands. Installing the Noble Seal TS to the framing would obviously be the easiest route.

Installing Kerdi, Noble Seal TS or any sheet membrane is much harder than applying a liquid membrane. Consider your installation experience and perhaps try installing it all in smaller pieces with more seams. This will cost you a little extra in Noble Sealant 150 but will most likely make the install easier.

The inside and outside corners are worth the expense. Make sure the outside corners go in first. The inside ones it does not matter.

JW

[Shawn_T]

Thanks John. You are correct that Noble EXT is not approved for steam showers and I do like the idea of using super panel for the ceiling.

[johnfrwhipple]

It might be a liability issue perhaps with Noble. Imagine if you set a 4'x2' stone up there that would be a lot of weight supported by just the fleece on the Noble.

We have done a number of jobs with Noble Seal TS and 1'x2' tiles and have had no issues.

Make sure you use proper screws for the cement board.

As crazy as it seems but we often pre-drill the board with the self tapping wafer head screws and then swap them out for the cement board screws. I find the wafer heads pull the board tight and the pre-drill causes less stress on the cement board.

With the Green EBoard #8 Stainless screws are golden we go through about a 1/2 pound per 3'x5' sheet or roughly $6.00 per board. On a typical steamer I would grab a 2.5 pound bag of Stainless Screws. Your attaching to wood studs right? With condo work I like the fine thread drywall screws. But that is a thread in of itself boarding in Condos...

We bang the green eboard up with a few ring shank galvanized drywall nails to hold it tight to the wall and then screw it off.

Shawn if your around my neck of the woods you can always call me and check out these materials. I always have loads of stock around. I live North Van between Westview and Cap.

JW (604) 506 6792

[Shawn_T]

Thanks for the tips about the screws. I guess it is best to use lots of them and make sure the board is not moving anywhere. I am screwing into wood studs and am going to use mostly 18" porcelain tile. I am going to pick up my nobleseal ts and sealant next week but I can't start anything yet because one of my pulumbing valves is on backorder. Can't wait to start seeing some progress.