Dare I put a wood window in a shower wet wall

[chefwong]

Tub/Shower setup.
Brick Exterior
Current Window is a Owen Corning Fiberglass Window
The RO for the Window is just a smigen past where you would normally stand under the showerhead.
The window does not see direct water but it will be moist from overspray/shower heat..

I'm in the midst of planning the remodel of this.
Not a fan of vinyl but I will if I have to.
The windows in the majority of the house is either Kolbe or Marvin Ultimates.

I'm inclined to stick with a clad/wood window and just keep the paint in good condition rigorously for the interior facing portion of this window.
Am I asking for trouble here - the combo of wet/moist overspray that will be on the surface of the window and it still being a painted surface/wood window ?

[Terry]

I'm a big fan of vinyl windows for the tub/shower area, with non-porous wrapping.
Code requires tempered glass, which can be ordered.

[cacher_chick]

I have trouble grasping how having a window in a shower is ever a good thing. Personally, I would do away with it altogether.

Fiberglass windows are great. I'm curious how you will expect to benefit by switching to a lesser product?

[jadnashua]

I'll second fiberglass windows...they expand and contract at almost exactly the same rate as the glass they contain, are much stiffer, and often, have a larger glass area verses a vinal equivalent. This puts less stress on the glass, and maintains the seal for longer than in an average vinal or wooden window.

Any window in a wet area is a tough install. Windows are designed to shed water to the outside, not on the inside, so the slopes of the cladding is all wrong for use in a shower. Pooling can be an issue. personally, if I was going to have a (non-operable) window in a shower, I'd go with a glass block one. The key to any is good attention to details and proper slope with waterproofing.

[chefwong]

Casement style window that is frosted on the outside.

Marvin and Kolbe products are not a lesser product than the fiberglass window.
When Owens was making Fiberglass windows, they were the top $ product during that time.
However, like vinyl, over time they get brittle, etc.
The clad/wood windows IMO are holding like a rock. There is upkeep on paint/stain for the interior but this is more the very nature of having a *finished interior* side of the window. The exterior clad get's no treatment. Every spring, after a long winter, I just take my commerical grade steam cleaner, blow out all the nooks and crannies and a good pressure wash on the exterior.

I've yet to investigate how well paint will be *on wood* vs fiberglass in this area.

It's just from experiance, that the fiberglass windows do get brittle...

[dlarrivee]

You seem to have a lot of strange ideas.

[johnfrwhipple]

I have heard some talks with the boys here in Vancouver that not all vynal windows are created equal.

I have heard about bonding issues with different waterproofing approaches.

I have a window in my shower and we waterproof windows all the time.

The movement is key. You need a window designed with little stress on the design or movement in the operation.

Two things we have found that works very well is using the plastic JChannels and some Kerdi Fix to make the first connection of the backer board to the window.

Or installing first some Noble Seal TS to the wood studs and then pressing in the backer board. Before screwing we pull the membrane tight and get a bead of Noble Sealant 150 against the window and the membrane.

Of the two I prefer the JChannel and Kerdi Fix approach. Kerdi fix sets up quicker and harder and I like that for removing the flex in a window assembly.

Good Luck.





We did not board this window but did the best we could for this builder in North Vancouver without ripping his work down. The green waterproofing product is Hydro Ban and the Kerdi Fix could have been replaced with Silicone but for a few dollars I know the Kerdi Fix will bite well to the window.


JW

[jadnashua]

There's a good reason why none of the tile installation approved methods will let you tile to solid wood framing, it's just not stable in varying humidity and temperature situations...it requires at least plywood, and personally, I prefer even more rigid substrates. Movement is deadly to tile. Even if not being tiled, the joint between the wood and the tile is problematic when one side can move a lot. Sealing to something that can move is problematic...vinal expands and contracts a lot with temperature changes...fiberglass is much more stable. Then, you have the glass to frame movement where wood and vinal move much more than fiberglass to glass. I like to minimize my potential problem areas. No window is really designed to both shed water outside and inside, so the inside is always a compromise (glass block is an exception).

[ballvalve]

would you put that butcher block in the bathroom? Vinyl works. You can hang a shower curtain over it as well.

[chefwong]

Our dear Terry actually gave me that Avatar. One day I logged in and viola it was there ;-)

Eeeks. Some god posts and I totally remember in my previous house, the header for a window rough in saw constant humidity - similar to a bathroom and paint that was on plywood wrinkled and cracked due to the movement in the face of the graining of the plywood.

Oh well, back to the drawing board and time to investigate more window brands.

[johnfrwhipple]

Chef Wong.

What type of tile will you be using? Any Slab around the window.

Look for a window that gives you some room to waterproof to it and still have some of the detail.

On my current project in UBC the window company needs to make some custom metal pieces to cover the exsiting OG detail and allow for 3/4" slab to be installed.





I was not hired to prep these windows nor the walls of this shower - but.... I could not leave these sub par attempts at waterproofing the window alone. I might have stepped on a few toes fixing this window but in the end the builder was impressed for my care. Espicially since it was outside my scope of work on this project. I'm sure that will net me a new job - one day. I'll but up some more pictures of the fix when I go back to flood out the two showers.

Make sure you tilt the sill framing as well your finished look will be off. IE if the sill prep is not sloped when you set the sill tile it will have a different reveal than the three other sides.

JW

[chefwong]

I have not gone window shopping lately, but there is a significant difference when you *open/close* aforementioned windows versus others. So maybe I am somewhat biased based on my past purchase selection if not still the quality feel of how the clad/wood windows are as opposed to my previous fiberglass windows..

John, tile is yet to be determined. I am all over the map on this. While I would love large format marble, etc....methinks as a bathroom that is multi-use purpose (kids bathroom) as well, I may just stray for porcelain. If I do porcelain, it will be 1/3 mosiac and 2/3 large format, floor to wall.

The exterior of the house is brick. The partial ~slab~ it will see will be the exterior facing side where it is touching the brick / slab stone sill RO.
Per you previous post, you basically *wrap* the stud in a membrane...and then apply backboard.

I'm going to have to reread you post on sill slopes and reveal. As long as the backerboard is the same against the entire frame of the window, than the reveal after tile should be the same no...

[johnfrwhipple]

...I'm going to have to reread you post on sill slopes and reveal. As long as the backerboard is the same against the entire frame of the window, than the reveal after tile should be the same no...

If you layed everything square to the window yes the reveal would be the same.

But if you tip the bottom tile a hair so water drains off of it this will kick the end up on the tile closest to the window. This is why the bottom portion of the sill needs more attention or some 1/4" Hardie - Green E vs 1/2" everywhere else. So you can achieve grade on your waterproofing and grade on your finished tile and keep the reveal around the window the same.

JW

[chefwong]

Got it. This is strictly in planning stages right now, but a wild guess would be around 4" Depth on the inside sill.
To get the pitch, would you just cut the width x 1" deep and put that on the edge of the bottom RO. Then hydroban, and ~tile~ maintaining a downward pitch.
And when I say tile, it my understanding that alot of pro tilesetters like to use some sort of stone on the bottom, similar to the bottom of a niche versus tile.

Thoughts on material - whether it be same tile or a whole stone that would not have a grout/joint on the *bottom* of the ~box~.
I only mention this as when I did a inquiry on the bathroom renov. a year back, I do recall 2 contractors advising this.

[johnfrwhipple]

Stone does look nice but look into this detail carefully.

The stone should "Cap" the lower course and ideally half some king of a lap joint cut into it.

To make the back of the stone look nice where it meets the window it needs to be back cut as well a few degrees.

I prefer having the stone project off the face of the tiled wall about a finger thickness or 7/8".

Tile looks great as well.

Depending on the heigh of the window think about your kids or your wife. Can they slip and hit there face on the sill? If so a stone with a radius edge is much safer than a tile install with mitered corners.

If there is a chance a mitered corner with the tile opened up greats a bullnose effect once grouted.

Safety in the shower is often overlooking and often takes a back sit to design.

It should not.

JW