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Thread: Flushmate in Gerber water level needs adjustment

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member l123's Avatar
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    Question Flushmate in Gerber water level needs adjustment

    I have Flushmaster model 503 in Gerber toilet. I have 2 problems:
    (1) The level of the water in the bowl is too high - I could use and 1" or 1.5" less water.
    (2) There always is some water (say <1/4") in the bottom of the ceramic tank where the black lushmaster is installed).

    How to adjust the water level?
    Thanx

    Last edited by Terry; 07-04-2009 at 10:01 AM.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    There is no adjustment for bowl water level height. It's determined by the top bend on the trapway which acts as a dam.

    The water in the tank is normal.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The height of the water in the bowl is a design thing...nothing you can do about it. If you could lower it, it may not flush right. The bowl is almost always filled up to the limit so it can work right. If you want a toilet with a lower water level, you'll have to replace the toilet. As to water in the tank, not sure about the flush mechinism in that toilet...if it uses a flapper valve, it's normal to not use all of the water. If it isn't, something might be leaking.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    The weir in trap determines the height of the water spot. Low flow toilets rely on gravity to produce the pressure with the small volume of water used to flush. They are designed to have more water in the tank than is used during the flush. The extra height provide a bit more pressure. You can cheat a bit if you think you need more water on a particularly heavy load by just holding the handle down for a couple of seconds. A normal flush just requires the handle to be pushed down and released.

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    DIY Junior Member newb's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Wrong answers

    There is something wrong with all the answers.
    If those answers were true it would mean that Sloan Flushmate is not using 1.6 gal/flush but it factually is using the content of the black tank, i.e. about 1.6 gal plus the content of the bowl, i.e. about 2.5 gal for the total of 4.1 gal/flush.
    On the other hand if the FLushmate relies on the height of the bend in the siphon, it would mean that (a) there would be a lot of water wasted while overflowing the siphon until Flushmate shuts the supply to the bowl - both are unrelated; (b) the hight of the siphon is not the same in all toilets resulting in different levels of water.
    I have tried Gerber standard height and ADA height - both have the water level less than 4" from the rim - result is that all men using these toilets complain about having their balls dunked in the dirty water.
    Something is very wrong with this picture and the 7 men who complaind cannot be the only one in the world.
    It is obvious that the water will flow into the bowl until the Flushmate shuts off the supply. This timing must be set at the factory by the shape and size of various Flusmate components - ergo they must be capable of modofication or Sloan Flusmate should modify them.
    The only question is how.
    And the correct answer is not: 'it is impossible', but rather the correct answer is collectively: "we do not know".
    So now it is Sloan Flushmate time to answer.

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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Yes, the water will continue to flow into the bowl until the supply is shut off, but the height of the water in the bowl will not change unless the toilet is clogged. The extra water just goes down the drain. That why if you have a flapper that doesn't shut, the water continues to flow into the bowl but does not overflow.

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    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    ALL toilets are designed to have the water level right at the weir of the trapway. In terms of actual water level in the bowl, also called 'water spot' there are different designs. Most folks complain about toilets with a low water spot, but sometimes the issue about 'low hanging fruit' also results in complaints.

    Bottom line about your toilet, if you somehow lowered the water level, it would flush poorly.

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    DIY Junior Member newb's Avatar
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    Thans to all.
    You made two points: (1) water will waste through the siphon until the FLushmate shuts off the water flow into the bowl - but of course this is not accceptable way of wasting water in todays toilets. (2) if the water level in the bowl is lowered it may flush less effectively or at the extreme it will very poor and require double flush - also very wastful - but acceptable if it eliminates involuntary ball-washing.
    There is nothing worst than having the balls washed in the bowl water - let's waste the water in double flushes.
    Obviously it is the Flushmate valve that shuts off the water flow into the bowl.
    Can some modification be made to speed up that shut-off time? Or is it the case that the bowl flow and the pressurization of the holding tank occure at the same time - which would mean that no reasonable mod can be made?
    If it is totally unmodifiable - we will have to junk all the Flushmate Gerber toilets and buy something with water level at 6" 9or more) below the rim.

    By the way - why manufacturers do not list the rim-water level distance?

    Anyone has any recommendation of efficient/effective toilets but with the low water level. We do prefer bidet for washing.
    Thanks again.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    As far as I know, the Flushmate is not adjustable. And, if you need a lower water spot, you'll need to get a new toilet as it just won't work right. It has nothing to do with the Flushmate, it is the toilet bowl design. As noted earlier, ALL toilets are designed to be at their 'overflow' height. If they aren't, they frequently flush poorly, if at all, on the first try. A taller toilet, such as one in ADA configuration would likely have more room between the seat and the water spot, plus, is more comfortable for most people as they age.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Junior Member newb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    As far as I know, the Flushmate is not adjustable. And, if you need a lower water spot, you'll need to get a new toilet as it just won't work right. It has nothing to do with the Flushmate, it is the toilet bowl design. As noted earlier, ALL toilets are designed to be at their 'overflow' height. If they aren't, they frequently flush poorly, if at all, on the first try. A taller toilet, such as one in ADA configuration would likely have more room between the seat and the water spot, plus, is more comfortable for most people as they age.
    Thank you - I do appreciate your advise. Indeed we had the standard height Gerber with 28-380 Flushmate tank, and hoped that going into ADA height would solve the problem. Unfortunatly it did not, the distance was the same - which means, taking your explanation into account, that Gerber must have made the siphon taller in ADA toilet.
    I guess time to dump it all together and get something else.
    Also, as the FYI I just learnedfrom the fellow at Flushmate that " the codes and standards applicable to toilets
    manufactured or sold in the US and Canada require a minimum 2" trap-seal.
    The trap-seal is measured from the top of the trap (where the waste exits
    the bowl) to the surface of the water. Depending on the geometry and design
    of the bowl, the water level could be anywhere from 4" to 8" "from the rim
    "."

    I guess I want the 8" - who makes it?

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