Buy the Big Brands (Rainsoft, Kinetico, Culligan) or cheaper solution just fine?

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bcaraway

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We need a water softener. I recently had the Rainsoft guy out here for the dog-and-pony show (water test and very weak sales pitch). He never called back. I'm guessing he gets paid by the lead or per each test. Whatever.

I have the money to lay out for one of these big brand whole house systems from Rainsoft, Culligan, or Kinetico. My question is this: Why should I spend ~$5K for these systems when there are tons of other seemingly comparable options out there for $1500 - $2500? What does $5K get me that $2000 doesn't? Pros/Cons?

I can't seem to get any help/education searching online...just worthless copy on affiliate pages. I like reading some of the things on Alamo Water Softeners' site, but I'm just not sure what to believe.

I'm hoping to get some help here on this forum on how to go about buying a whole house system (including RO at kitchen sink, and maybe fridge too).

My stats:
5 people in family
Hardness - 11.5 GPG
Chlorine - 1.5 PPM

Can I get some help? Let me know if you need other questions answered. Thanks in advance...

Blake C
Kerrville, TX
 

Tom Sawyer

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You can buy almost anything online and if you have the skills, tools and patience you can probably install it yourself. All 3 of the companies you mention make good equipment and they will install and service it too but as you have already noticed, you pay a premium for their products and their services. So in the end it all comes down to how much you want to spend and how much commitment you have to the project. Do yourself a favor though and avoid big box store brands like GE and Kenmore units. If you are going to spend the money, buy equipment that will last more than a few years. Fleck is a good place to start since you can't get Clack online anymore.
 

wangtao

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Hi, Blake,
Base on my knowledge about softener,list is the difference:
1.Kinetico No Need Electric Power, double resin tank,expensive;
2.Culligan need power, single Resin tank,expensive;
3.Rainsoft need power, single tank, expensive;
It's better to call every vender and ask for a dog-and-pony,then you can make your final decision.

hope will help you.
 

Mialynette2003

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Blake,
Haven't been to Kerrville in years but maybe we know some of the same people. Anyway, don't waste your money on the high priced equipment when the lower priced ones (except the big box store models) will do they same. You can buy on line and have a plumber install it and save thousands. I send you a private message.
 

hj

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quote; What does $5K get me that $2000 doesn't? Pros/Cons?

A "big name", period. Most, if not all, of the "big names" are overpriced and depend on the "dog and pony show" to get you to "buy now, before the price goes up". The only advantage to one of them, and you will still overpay for it, is that they will do the repiping necessary, if you do not have provision for the softener, but even then you may not know if they did it the "best" way, or the "cheapest" way. All water softeners use the same process and materials. The price difference SHOULD be in the controls they use, which are actually all bought from the same sources, therfore, I suggest to my customers, and also for my own uses, that they put a lot of consideration into what they are getting for their money, and maybe one of the less expensive units is just as good.
 
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bcaraway

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Thanks for all the info. I think I'm going to put together my own system and have a plumber install locally. I've already started sizing and specifying a system thanks to the helpful links on this forum. I'm looking at the Fleck 5600 SXT (5600SXT-40M).

Any recommendations on carbon filter and RO system here (links and/or discussion)? Those are the other two components I was looking at with Rainsoft/Culligan/Kinetico.

Gotta say....the water conditioning industry sucks. There's too much disparity in price between DIY and big name retailers...and help from great forums like this one really should be more available to typical consumers that aren't necessarily DIY'ers but aren't total suckers with $ to burn either.

Thanks for all the help here...very much appreciated!

Blake C.
 

bcaraway

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Culligan gave me a price for their Gold series softener, Big Blue filter, and RO system - $4565

When I asked, the sales guy said it's a Culligan made controller. Same with the Resin.

45,000 grain capacity softener with 16 or 18" brine tank.

Much better price than expected. What other questions should I ask or things to be aware of here?

Thx
 

Gary Slusser

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Buying a national brand meas you must use their parts and service. And the price is way high.

The heart and brain of a softener is the control valve. You would do much better buying a softener with a Fleck control valve online and assembling and installing it yourself or hiring a plumber to install it. You can buy the rest of the equipment from the same online dealer. You would probably save as much as $3000 and repair it yourself if needed.
 

Tom Sawyer

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Yea, you have to check other forums and start looking at all the hassle folks have trying to get Culligan service parts or for that matter try and find a service or installation manual for their stuff. It all ends up being a huge pain in the ass. Not that Culligan stuff is crap because it is high quality stuff but when things go bad ( and they always do ) you are pretty much stuck with having to call the Culligan service guy out because only they have the parts and they generally will not sell them direct to you. Fleck has been around for many years and is probably the industry standard if any such thing exists. Personally, I prefer Clack, especially for DIY install and service because it's a very easy valve to program and maintain but Clack no longer sells on the web and getting one means buying it from a local water filtration company and paying a few more dollars but I think you will find it worth the extra money spent.
 

bcaraway

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Thanks again for the help here. I called a local business (Greg Howard's Kerr Country Pump Company) that sells and installs softener systems in the area for many years. His offer:

Clack WS-1 valve
45K capacity 1.5 cu ft
9.5 (or 10, not sure) resin tank
Big Blue carbon filter
Under sink RO system
Installation (which includes cutting new hole for RO faucet in granite counter top at sink)

Total: $2100

That's more like it.

Thanks again for the help and information here. I'll probably be back asking dumb questions in the near future as I maintain the system.
 

ditttohead

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The price is good but a BB carbon filter for a whole house is not ideal. They are expensive to change, have very limited rated vs. peak flow rate (they will flow a lot of water, they just wont do what they are supposed to do at the higher rates), and have a very limited capacity. I prefer a stacked unit similar to the one shown in this article. These cost slightly more, but with a full half cubic foot of GAC, you will get a couple years between media change-outs, and a much higher flow rate. Any control valve can be used, including the clack, Autotrol or Fleck line. Otherwise, a seprate backwashing GAC system would be preferred. The stacked units of past were not very good. this newer design has been out for 4 years and has had no feild issues and by using the tank connector shown, the service issues are elimnated. no more pulling the top tank off and over the manifold. Ecotwin.jpg
 

ditttohead

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This unit is sold by some of the big companies but at crazy prices. Typically it is sold for 3-5K! Completely ridiculous. This guy does primarily industrial systems, so the residential equipment he sells for similar price mark ups.

This system has no proprietary equipment so future service will be easy. The only unique item is the tank interconnector and that item is fairly inexpensive. We have never had to replace one yet but if it did, the part is under $40. He uses the either the Fleck 7000 or the Clack. My personal preference is the 7000 but both valves are the best ever made. Being a master distributor for both, and selling and servicing thousands of them, I can honestly say that both valves are nearly equal in quality and performance.

Jason at Grand said the system would be approximately $1500 plus shipping. The unit ships fully assembled and programmed. Only the hardness needs to be set.
 

baba4dem

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Efficiency and reliability.

I’m a brewer and science geek so I’ll shine some light here.

If the system costs $300 how long do you think that will last? What will the warranty be? Probably about 1 yr warranty and a 5 yr reliability with ok efficiency. You’ll burn 1 bag plus a month. this is my direct experience with a box store Morton softener. Plus: I had to hook it up, bring down the salt, and still get my grain of hardness tested to set it right.

For the Culligan system: I have it. There are 3 options based on efficiency. Base, mid, top. I went with the highest system for softening. Why? Unlike standard “regen after x time” and using extra water, mine only Regens as needed according to use and uses about 1/3 the water of others. I’m efficiency conscious. Also: Culligan at a minimal charge set the whole thing up, they bring in my salt (for a minimum fee) and if anything goes wrong I call them. No liability to me.

You See as we get older; we understand to do one major thing: avoid liability if you can. On top of it: my water is way better than it was with the Morton system.

For the nay-sayers: I challenge you to scientifically explain why I’m wrong.

I do no work for Culligan or any water purification company. I am not being paid for this. I am only sharing direct experience from a brewers perspective.

also we could compare RO systems of Culligan versus box shelf.

Box shelf: about 75% efficiency; read the filters. Culligan: about 97%+
why Does that matter? As a brewer I want stripped water, nothing left in it.

how do I know this is fact? I’ve had box store and Culligan samples CHecked at ward labs for water quality. The Culligan is way better and that is fact.

#My Opinion.
 

oldVermonter

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Culligan gave me a price for their Gold series softener, Big Blue filter, and RO system - $4565

When I asked, the sales guy said it's a Culligan made controller. Same with the Resin.

45,000 grain capacity softener with 16 or 18" brine tank.

Much better price than expected. What other questions should I ask or things to be aware of here?

Thx

It's very unlikely that Culligan (or any other manufacturer) actually makes their own controllers...that's not how industry works nowadays. If it's Culligan-brand, that means an OEM contract manufacturer makes it to Culligan's specs, and attaches a Culligan label. That's not necessarily a problem, if Culligan's specs are better that the alternatives.
 
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