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Thread: 4 wire range to 3 wire receptacle

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    DIY Junior Member Jacob Robinson's Avatar
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    Default 4 wire range to 3 wire receptacle

    I just got a hand me down Maytag range from a co-worker, model MER5765RAS. It came with a 4-wire cord, so I assume I can just wire the 3-wire cord from my old range to the new Maytag, with that said do I need to put a jumper from the neutral terminal to the chassis ground on the range, or just leave the chassis ground un-connected.

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    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Robinson View Post
    do I need to put a jumper from the neutral terminal to the chassis ground on the range, .
    Yes .

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    DIY Senior Member Chad Schloss's Avatar
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    Hey JW, what if the range (or electric dryer) was fed from a subpanel? I had an inspector tell me once that I had to have that jumper (bond) removed at the appliance, which was an electric dryer. I had it fed from a generac standby panel. I would think that if it was fed from a subpanel you would keep them separate, correct?

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    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Schloss View Post
    Hey JW, what if the range (or electric dryer) was fed from a subpanel? I had an inspector tell me once that I had to have that jumper (bond) removed at the appliance, which was an electric dryer. I had it fed from a generac standby panel. I would think that if it was fed from a subpanel you would keep them separate, correct?
    Good question. In order to have a three wire receptacle for a range or dryer the branch circuit MUST ORIGINATE in the service panel. The use of a 3 wire receptacle is for existing installations only and cannot be installed new. If the appliance is supplied from a remote panel then a 4 wire receptacle MUST be installed

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    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Robinson View Post
    I just got a hand me down Maytag range from a co-worker, model MER5765RAS. It came with a 4-wire cord, so I assume I can just wire the 3-wire cord from my old range to the new Maytag, with that said do I need to put a jumper from the neutral terminal to the chassis ground on the range, or just leave the chassis ground un-connected.

    That Range has three connections and the Neutral should already be connected to ground.

    You can verify that with your ohm meter.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    Electrical Contractor jbfan74's Avatar
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    If it was used on a 4 wire circuit, then the bond would have been removed.
    Yes I am A Pirate-Jimmy Buffett

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member Chad Schloss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    Good question. In order to have a three wire receptacle for a range or dryer the branch circuit MUST ORIGINATE in the service panel. The use of a 3 wire receptacle is for existing installations only and cannot be installed new. If the appliance is supplied from a remote panel then a 4 wire receptacle MUST be installed
    what had happened is I had 10/3 feeding a 3 wire dryer outlet, and the dryer obviously had 3 wire plug attached. The ground wire was unused but attached to the metal box mounted on the concrete wall. I added a separate ground wire (green 10 ga i think) from the dryer ground lug to the box. I was selling the house and didn't want to buy anything else for it is why I had that there. The inspector said it was ok so I left it like that. He did say that I should have removed the ground bond from the dryer frame connecting to the neutral (if i remember correctly) and I asked why. He said because of paralell paths back to the panel. I should have just installed the 4 prong cord & receptacle.

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    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    That inspector was wrong in saying that the installation was alright. If you ran 10/3 with ground then you should have installed a four wire receptacle and removed the bonding jumper in the dryer.

    The equipment grounding conductor is required to be installed in the same cable or raceway as all the other conductors so the green wire you installed is a violation also. This must have been a home inspector doing an inspection for the buyer.

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    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbfan74 View Post
    If it was used on a 4 wire circuit, then the bond would have been removed.
    I agree, But Would and Should may be an assumption.

    Unless the range was modified , the Neutral is connected to ground inside of the range.

    That range was made for a 3 wire plug, If it has a 4 wire plug then it could be modified, Against the Manufacture instructions.

    The ground wire will normally go to Neutral at the service entrance, so unless the Neutral wire breaks, it is no big deal.


    Please Correct me if I am wrong. Old Dogs can learn new tricks...
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    I agree, But Would and Should may be an assumption.

    Unless the range was modified , the Neutral is connected to ground inside of the range.

    That range was made for a 3 wire plug, If it has a 4 wire plug then it could be modified, Against the Manufacture instructions.

    The ground wire will normally go to Neutral at the service entrance, so unless the Neutral wire breaks, it is no big deal.


    Please Correct me if I am wrong. Old Dogs can learn new tricks...


    The installation instructions on every range and dryer manufactured today will state to remove the bonding jumper in the dryer when a 4 wire receptacle is used. This coincides with what is mandated in 250.142 of the NEC. These instructions are included in the UL Standard used to manufacture the appliance

    The NEC will mandate that any new circuit installed for a range or dryer be made with a 4 conductor circuit.
    By exception an existing 3 wire circuit can remain as long as it originates in the service equipment and if NM-B cable it must have an insulated white conductor or if it is SE cable the neutral is allowed to be bare.

  11. #11
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    The installation instructions on every range and dryer manufactured today will state to remove the bonding jumper in the dryer when a 4 wire receptacle is used. This coincides with what is mandated in 250.142 of the NEC. These instructions are included in the UL Standard used to manufacture the appliance

    The NEC will mandate that any new circuit installed for a range or dryer be made with a 4 conductor circuit.
    By exception an existing 3 wire circuit can remain as long as it originates in the service equipment and if NM-B cable it must have an insulated white conductor or if it is SE cable the neutral is allowed to be bare.

    I agree.


    That Range was manufactured a Minuit ago...
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    DIY Senior Member Chad Schloss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric View Post
    That inspector was wrong in saying that the installation was alright. If you ran 10/3 with ground then you should have installed a four wire receptacle and removed the bonding jumper in the dryer.

    The equipment grounding conductor is required to be installed in the same cable or raceway as all the other conductors so the green wire you installed is a violation also. This must have been a home inspector doing an inspection for the buyer.
    It was an inspector for the new buyer, but at at an earlier time when I installed the standby generator, I asked him (the county electrical inspector) if this was ok, he said it was, so I just ran with it. Out here, they have gone through changes and budget cuts. We used to have separate inspectors for electrical / mechanical / plumbing, but now have all-in-one type people. I know that no one knows everything about every trade, so I didn't know at the time if it was correct or not. I know now though

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    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Schloss View Post
    It was an inspector for the new buyer, but at at an earlier time when I installed the standby generator, I asked him (the county electrical inspector) if this was ok, he said it was, so I just ran with it. Out here, they have gone through changes and budget cuts. We used to have separate inspectors for electrical / mechanical / plumbing, but now have all-in-one type people. I know that no one knows everything about every trade, so I didn't know at the time if it was correct or not. I know now though
    Chad,

    When You need to Modify OLD equipment to meet New code, You are just wasting your time, and money.

    It becomes no safer, Works NO better.

    I see it as a waste of copper...


    If all homes were inspected and installed to code, You would Never Buy or Sell a house.


    Code is a good place to start. But may Not always be the safest way to go.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member Chad Schloss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    Chad,

    When You need to Modify OLD equipment to meet New code, You are just wasting your time, and money.

    It becomes no safer, Works NO better.

    I see it as a waste of copper...


    If all homes were inspected and installed to code, You would Never Buy or Sell a house.


    Code is a good place to start. But may Not always be the safest way to go.
    this washer/dryer wasn't that old as it was from 2001;it had an option to wire it 3 wire or 4 wire. i tried to make it a bit 'safer' by adding a ground. this is when I first started getting into home wiring. I havea pretty good background in dc electronics but was pretty green on ac stuff.

  15. #15
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Schloss View Post
    this washer/dryer wasn't that old as it was from 2001.
    If you get a new one to last 10 years, You are doing good. May never happen.


    The new ones are designed to last, Just as long as the warranty.


    Good for manufactures, bad for consumers. Very sorry but true.


    MTBF is very calculatable. (New word...)
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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