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Thread: How much should the water level drop in a Kerdi Shower flood test?

  1. #61
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Leo are you cutting down the Kerdi Curb you bought so it's not so huge?

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:57 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    I have been chatting with Leo here about his installation methods. I have recommended he cut down his Kerdi Curb so it is not so high. I did a blog post on the subject and laughed out loud when a member of John Bridge's forum suggested a trampoline to get into the shower built with a Kerdi Curb. He was kidding of course (I think) and so that everyone understands what I'm talking about lets look at this monster of a shower dam they call a Kerdi Curb.

    When looking at these massive shower curbs build from foam I wondered if because they are so huge - this is part of the problem with water wicking into the seams. The Kerdi curb looks a good 6"-8" high in the photos. My curbs I build out of bricks or concrete and are only 2"-3" finished - with tile. So under flood test I have a gallons and gallons of less water in my builds.

    Maybe all Jim's ranting about head water pressure is coming to shed som light on this problem of water wicking into the Kerdi Seams. Lets take a closer look at the monster curb Schluter calls the "Kerdi Curb"



    No this shower was not built by me but rather built by or for one of Vancouver's local tile shops. What a piss poor showing of the Kerdi Shower System. Maybe not the system but certainly the quality of work. This washroom was on my top five worst bathrooms in Vancouver - it was nasty. Now it's cleaned up, but look at the quality of the job.... so poor.



    See how poorly the Schluter tile profile was installed. This is a common mistake rookies make. Not using the right size profile for the tile. Man that curb is ugly....



    The inside looks worse than the outside!



    Photo Source - Page

    So Jim - do you think because the Kerdi Shower Curbs are so huge - that this is adding to the problem with the kerdi flood test?

    Looking at that picture it would require over 22 gallons more water than I use for a flood test. A 3" difference. That is like 4.5 buckets more. 22 gallons of water will add over 175 pounds. If I estimated the shower right at 36"x48". Not sure if I'm doing the math right but that makes only 0.1 pounds per square inch.....



    This Kerdi Curb is even bigger. OMG that is a tool box waiting to be tiled. Photo Source

    Now this is how a low curb should be done. Out of cement and Kerdi. This a photo I took when I dropped of an ACO linear drain to KBC Developments out in White Rock. See how the tile pro build a low curb shower. Used cement. Did not make the curb look like a tiled tool box but rather s sleek minimal design. Awesome work.



    If a kerdi Curb was used here I think there would be over 800 pounds more water in the shower for the flood test. But you think the Germans would have planned for this. Yet another reason to build the showers like they do in Germany..... With Kerdi Coll. Not non-modifed thin-set...
    I think you are mistaken the width of the curb - large as you call it - with practical when cleaning the shower floor or even use it as a step. Other than aesthetically a narrow vs. large curb doesn't serve any purpose.

    No curb or curb less is a different story .
    Roberto

  3. #63
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:57 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    Roberto - these curbs look massive. Look like shit.

    Sorry - who wants a monster curb like that in their home?

    I was wondering if because they are so tall (and wide for that matter) if they add to much weight of water for Kerdi to handle. I get it if the Kerdi is installed perfectly it works. yatta yatta yatta.

    But maybe if the kerdi is installed 95% ok the extra weight forces the water through the seam....

    Possible don't you think. All you boys study head water pressure.
    Besides the possibility of cutting the curb , massiveness could be resolved . And there is no water pressure , head pressure -- other than the one added by singular thinking -- or any other pressure you see with using it.

    Oh , I got it...... A chance you didn't see the Eiffel curbes I am building... LOL
    Last edited by eurob; 01-17-2014 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Curbes replaced curves
    Roberto

  5. #65
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:57 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  6. #66
    DIY Junior Member loudgonzo's Avatar
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    Default

    [QUOTE=johnfrwhipple;405917]
    Now this is how a low curb should be done. Out of cement and Kerdi. This a photo I took when I dropped of an ACO linear drain to KBC Developments out in White Rock. See how the tile pro build a low curb shower. Used cement. Did not make the curb look like a tiled tool box but rather s sleek minimal design. Awesome work.[QUOTE=johnfrwhipple;405917]




    I may look into lowering height of curb, not sure yet. I like the size of tile on this picture, what size is it? Is it floor tile? The bigger size tiles we have seen and like are floor tiles, there isn't any problem using them for a shower wall is there? Also, a shower using these larger tiles still needs the pebble floors for traction right? I have not seen pictures of a finished shower with these big tiles showing tiled floor. The ones I have seen using premade textured base.

    leo

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    I thought you spoke French? Your post sounds Greek to me. What the hell are you talking about.

    What are you building now. Please share you stuff - I like looking at pictures....


    Got to run. late for work...

    No kidding..... As soon as I mentioned curves...... I know you got disoriented. LOL

    Maybe later. Such pain to type on this crappy phone.....
    Roberto

  8. #68
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Default

    A good porcelain tile has less than 1% absorbtion rate. Take your grout example...the head pressure is still WAY less than in the flood test. The head or water pressure on the membrane of a surface membrane shower is never worse than in the flood test, and if it does not leak then, it will never leak.

    Looks aside, and there's no reason a Kerdi shower need look any different than a conventionally built one, if the workmanship is properly it DOES NOT LEAK! There are lots of acceptable ways to build the curb and the pan can use their tray or be made from deckmud. As long as the shape of the pan conforms to industry standards, once covered with Kerdi, it is fine.

    The quality of the finish work has no reliable relationship to how well it was waterproofed. A beautiful looking shower can leak just as easily as a lousy one be watertight.

    FWIW, there are some places in Hawaii that average nearly 400" of rain a year, verses some in say Arizona that may average 5". Does that mean that a roof in HI will leak verses one in AZ because it sees more water? No, properly built, they are both waterproof and protect what's underneath them.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 01-17-2014 at 11:56 AM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #69
    DIY Junior Member loudgonzo's Avatar
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    John, can you post a picture of the shower in progress with the low curb when its completed? I like the tiles and want to see how the this one turns out, especially the floor.

    thanks,
    Leo

  10. #70
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:57 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #71
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:57 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #72
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Can anyone show me where a porcelain tile broke loose from Ditra or Kerdi in an actual install when it was installed per Schluter's recommendations (this includes proper prep of the floor)? Yes, you probably can if there were not one of those membranes underneath it. The Robinson floor test of DitraXL on a 24" joist spacing (really stressful), installed per Schluter's recommendation gets a heavy or extra-heavy rating, depending on the tile size. This is better than installation at 16"OC with a cbu...so, who are you going to believe? The manufacturer that has the independent TCNA test results to verify it, or someone like John Whipple that just doesn't like me or Schluter, or believe they know how to install their own products? Those test reports are: TCNA-303-06 and TCNA-153-09. You can look them up yourself, if you don't believe me.

    As to bond strength, the TCNA also did some tests with porcelain tile with unmodified mortar, and came up with the following shear test average values of 277 and 365psi. Those test results are in TCA-073-03 and TCA-186-03. If you extrapolate those results to a 12x12 tile, that comes to 144*277= 39,888 or 144*365=52,560. I think, along with the long-term experience with their use AND the independent test results, John is blowing smoke.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #73
    DIY Senior Member Vegas_sparky's Avatar
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    These flood tests are really boring. Aside from adding more water every 15 minutes to keep half the coin covered, there's nothing to do.


  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_sparky
    Aside from adding more water every 15 minutes to keep half the coin covered, there's nothing to do.
    If you build your water dam right , no more adding is needed . Like this one

    Name:  Water dam 003 Resized.jpg
Views: 135
Size:  69.2 KB

    LOL
    Roberto

  15. #75
    DIY Senior Member Vegas_sparky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurob View Post
    If you build your water dam right , no more adding is needed . Like this one

    Name:  Water dam 003 Resized.jpg
Views: 135
Size:  69.2 KB

    LOL
    What dam? I just kept smearing that red crap all the way to the top of the speedbump.

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