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Thread: How much should the water level drop in a Kerdi Shower flood test?

  1. #16
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Kerdi Shower flood test - Red Guard or Ardex 8+9 as extra insurance

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    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:53 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  2. #17
    DIY Member boardable's Avatar
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    John, Of course I used the Kerdi screws and washers. Made patches big enough to cover 2 inches on ever side of the washer/screw combo. Unmodified thinset as required. Banded well over the required 2". Not being very clean with my kerdi install of course there was a lot of exposed thinset. So the next day I used a damp sponge and water and cleaned up the surface thinset. Noticed I got a defective ( old delaminated kerdi band) batch of kerdi band so ripped off the two pieces I made off of that band. Cleaned the thinset off and went in with a new roll of good kerdi band. I don't know how people clean the kerdi band when the thinset is wet ( still a mess). Used kerdi fix just on the outside surface of the seams like a caulk almost. I have a neo angled shower so I had to use it on the two 45 degree corners (why kerdi does'nt make a 45 degree corner I have no idea. Tested my plug the other day and it leaked or the water evaporated. I am going to say evaporated because I made a tiny kerdi tub and put water in it to test the waterproof membrane just for fun and that was all evaporated in less than a day also. Removed the plug and made sure nothing was stopping my seal. Once again I am just using the small red test plug with wing nut on top. tested it for a hour and no water drop. Commenced flood testing. stacked coins (Its a crap load of coins). It wicked higher than I would have liked but it seems it is only where there is thinset left on the membrane. I can see spots that I did not touch that look like dry membrane under water and then I can see spots where I set my water bucket on the membrane to clean the other day. You can actually see the imprint of the bottom of the bucket. I can see the drain flange but could see that before so no surpise ( yes I used kerdi fix to seal the lip around the drain also) Wicking in the sides some wicks none and some up to the top of the curb then stops. Over a 12 hour period I got a water drop of half a pennies width. Probably evaporation or the drain plug leaking a little over that time. Topped it off with about 14 oz of water and we will see what happens next. I plan on leaving the test for probably 72 hours. Also luckily the rest of the bathroom floor isnt sealed so I can crawl under and inspect for leaks. Since I did quiet a bit of scrubbing on the membrane ( nothing that messed anything up) and water has been on it before I'm not concerned with the discoloring as I know it isn't water getting under. The wicking happened even with the damp rag and water I spilled while washing away excessive thinset. Just wondering your thoughts? And Ardex here in california would be almost impossible to get.
    Last edited by boardable; 09-28-2012 at 09:16 AM.

  3. #18
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Ardex stuff is generally available, but not at a big box store... http://www.ardex.com/productDetail.a...tentParentID=2.

    To locate the ARDEX Americas Sales Professional for your area, please call 1-888-512-7339 or email your request to info@ardexamericas.com.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #19
    DIY Member boardable's Avatar
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    Jim, the only way I am getting ARDEX is if I drive about 10 hours north or ten hours south. The way I see it is a warranty on a product isn't worth anything because you still have to tear it out and all they are going to do is give you more product. You still have to do all the labor.

  5. #20
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I'm surprised to hear you can't get it anywhere closer, but it is what it is. If things pass the flood test, and you don't damage things in the process of applying tile, it should be fine. Just cover things while standing in there until you get to the tile on the floor. You want it tough enough so if you drop a trowel , step on something, or who knows what, you don't poke a hole in things.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #21
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    I think I may be laying tile backwards. Because I am doing this in my own house I lay the shower floor tile first. Wait a day or two ( preferable two) . Then throw down some thick towels and a cardboard box and work my way up the wall. I like to do this to make sure the lower tiles are of full size. The little tile cuts can stay at the top. If I was doing this job for a customer I would do the wall tile then make my pan. For this job I do it this way. Once again kind of a novice so experience is teaching me. As far as my wet test I am a bit concerned about the coloring of the kerdi membrane and the wicking. Is this normal? just because of my scrubbing of the thinset off of the kerdi before?

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A proper joint won't wick more than around 1/4" under pressure. The recommended overlap is at least 2", which is 8x normal to account for minor deviations in perfect. If your flood test was good, you're fine.

    Nothing wrong with doing the floor first as long as you protect it well. Your layout should avoid slivers, either at the top or the bottom, so adjust the layout to avoid that which may mean partial tiles both top and bottom.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
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    Jim definately. Looks so lame with little slivers I would rather half two tiles and make them a little less than a half etc or use the grout line to make it up than do a quarter tile. It looks like the water is just wicking up the thinset on the top of the membrane not under. But it is weird that I can see the bucket marks where I set the bucket down. May have compressed the fleece who knows. I'm using a foam pan liner so any leak will show quick since it has no where to go.

  9. #24
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A full bucket of water has a significant pressure on the narrow rim, and could easily squish most of the thinset out and leave a depression. Not a big deal. Next time, set it on a piece of ply or something , to distribute the weight.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #25
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    24hours no drop. But my joint did wick up over 4 inches. There is no way it isn't seamed correctly. I used kerdi corners and the piece is one piece. I ran it up the wall. I guess it just runs up the thinset. Crawled under the house and inspected. No leaks anywhere. Before I layed the floor I put down self leveling compound to level the floor then put the pan down. The only place for water to go would be the wall ( which I can see) or around the hole in the floor for the drain. Nothin there. I'm calling it good and for piece of mind all the seems are getting the redgard insurance. I have a left over bucket from my dads shower i did a month ago. For you pros, does the warranty extend to paying for labor if the product fails. If not who cares. Spending 300 dollars for more membrane when it fails isn't as bad as doing free work. Would rather just use the liquid on every seam and be over it

  11. #26
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:53 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #27
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    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 10:53 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  13. #28
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    John I have no prepared a tile sample board. What is that. No evap control. My pan wicked the same as your test box. Very disturbing. how can I make sure no water is just sitting below the membrane in some way. Even if it is just a little ? Only way I can think of is to cut a price of the krdi out and see hen make a patch to cover. Really wouldn't like to do it. But using gray thinset didn't halp in making it easy to see. Would it be almost black looking through the membrane ? Because it was dark just from me pressing when squeezing out thinset and when I was cleaning with water

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    Please excuse the horrible
    Spelling. iPhone is not a great device to do speedy typing on

  15. #30
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A properly built shower has NO standing water...a flood test is an absolute worst case test that a real shower should never see once completed. If it didn't leak with that, there's essentially NO water pressure to push any moisture into the seams during typical use...IOW, don't worry about it! Any water in the shower will flow down the wall and along the slope to the drain. Any (very small) amount that MIGHT get below the tile, will do the same thing. There shouldn't be ANY accumulation of moisture beneath the tile of the pan with the membrane and the slope to the drain...it MIGHT get a little damp if used continuously, but no standing water enough to wick anywhere. This is the one big advantage of a surface membrane, however achieved: the water stops at that point and doesn't saturate the substrate. Now, in a conventional shower, that substrate should handle being wet, but IMHO, it's better to never give it the chance!
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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