Service Pole to Well House Underground Line Specs

I did a water run today and priced the Schedule 40. No local wire except 4 wire grey UF (H H N G) priced at 110.00 for 80 feet. Planning to find separate strand wiring 10g TW rated wiring. I will run the four strand to the well pump pressure switch, and wire ahead the sub-panel and 120V outlet latter as the water is the priority now. Is Schedule 40 1 inch a better way to go for running wire and durability than 3/4 inch? The hardware store said it may be overkill. I will look into the ground rod for the well house.

The future sub-panel will have separate ground and neutral bars; main panel is the only place they are bonded. Trailer does not have a grounding rod; only main panel. The utility meter is grounded by wire to earth driven rod. The main service pole breaker box is grounded through galvanized steel pipe (no ground wire) to the utility meter box. The electrician said this should be upgraded as it is no longer to code. Some states still allow this, but I was surprised when I saw this working on the main box this summer.

Replied this morning but it never showed up in the forum, if this is out there already. Stocking up on the chicken broth and looking forward to the mud trenches tomorrow.

CHOLLA BOB said:

I did a water run today and priced the Schedule 40. No local wire except 4 wire grey UF (H H N G) priced at 110.00 for 80 feet. Planning to find separate strand wiring 10g TW rated wiring. I will run the four strand to the well pump pressure switch, and wire ahead the sub-panel and 120V outlet latter as the water is the priority now. Is Schedule 40 1 inch a better way to go for running wire and durability than 3/4 inch? The hardware store said it may be overkill. I will look into the ground rod for the well house.

The future sub-panel will have separate ground and neutral bars; main panel is the only place they are bonded. Trailer does not have a grounding rod; only main panel. The utility meter is grounded by wire to earth driven rod. The main service pole breaker box is grounded through galvanized steel pipe (no ground wire) to the utility meter box. The electrician said this should be upgraded as it is no longer to code. Some states still allow this, but I was surprised when I saw this working on the main box this summer.

Replied this morning but it never showed up in the forum, if this is out there already. Stocking up on the chicken broth and looking forward to the mud trenches tomorrow.

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If I were hired to do the job I would use 1", but only because I have a lot of it and I like to oversize things that go in the dirt. You will never regret having one size larger conduit, but you will hate having to dig another trench.

Happy Christmas everybody.

ActionDave said:

Happy Christmas everybody.

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Thanks Dave.

I agree on bigger is better. The difference in the cost is worth well worth it.
Specially when installing it with a shovel. I hope he has a stainless steel shovel.
Wet Gumbo is very hard to work with.


Have a safe and happy holiday.

Just pulled 550' of 3- 10's and a 12 in 3/4" thhw copper without a hitch. Could have taken more. Blew the rope thru with water and my home made foam plug [all down hill run]. room for more wires.

Save the soup, pull the wires and lay it on the surface until it dries out.

If it is an artificial tree it had to be constructed.

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And JW if it is a aluminum tree, how many ground rods do I need in my living room for it?

I will go with the 1 inch Schedule 40. I will run a sweeping curve with conduit up to the Service Pole box. With individual strand, it will be easiest to work with. Right now the 600v Yellow Submersible comes out of a cement hole with the water pipe 20 inches from the wall in the well house. As I am going to put a sub-panel in the future, I guess I could come up out of the hole for now or punch a new hole by the wall with a Schedule 40 curve and a run up a few feet. That seems to be the last issue. Stormed out yesterday, going out in the snow gumbo now to finish that trench. Thanks!

Big oversight on my part: 3 wire submersible runs into well house from pole breaker box: With the new switch, two 120 hots connect to the water pump pressure switch and the third wire is tightened to the green ground wire terminal screw on the water pump pressure switch steel frame as wired by the electrician.

Attached is link as the old water pump pressure switch was originally wired. The third wire was found wired directly to the third motor pump wire. This third wire seems to be a ground. Is bonding at main allowing for the 3 wire run? Electrician wired the third incoming breaker wire to green ground terminal on switch (out of sight), and outgoing third wire to second green switch terminal.




I was intending to run four wires to the well house (H H N G). This sub-panel is making more sense now. Clarifying third and fourth wire here and if it applies to my temporary straight connection to the well, until the sub-panel is installed.

Second shot shows main breaker box with two hots exiting to well house and third wire coming off the bonded neutral/ground bar. It is obviously a ground wire as it is a raw brass wire.



Schneider Electric Wiring Diagrams for old 9013 and new Universal:

Each of those yellow wires should have some sort of colored strip on them such as black red and green.

Green or bare (no insulation) is used for the equipment grounding and will need to go to the same terminal that you connect the #6 solid copper grounding electrode to.

A well pump does not usually have a neutral conductor (white or gray) you will need one for the 120 volt receptacle and light you plan on installing in the future. This neutral will need to be isolated from any equipment grounding conductor, grounding electrode conductor and the metal of the panel enclosure.

Do you have water now?

jwelectric said:

A well pump does not usually have a neutral conductor (white or gray) you will need one for the 120 volt receptacle and light you plan on installing in the future. This neutral will need to be isolated from any equipment grounding conductor, grounding electrode conductor and the metal of the panel enclosure.

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That's good to hear. Still digging and was doing inventory for wire tomorrow. I will run the four 10ga wires (H H N G) and leave N capped on both ends until sub-panel. Right now no water. The electrician flipped on the breaker and everything ran until ice thawed. Breaker stays on only in frozen ground conditions. I am afraid of burning out the well pump with shorts by turning on breaker for water. So will find out when I hook up the electric in the next few days; however, we are getting another blizzard on Thursday.

If you can dig the splice up, and get it on top of the Ground, You maybe be able to have water until the storm blows over.

I started looking for that splice, but was digging along the UF running 1-4 inches below the ground in a direction heading away from the well house, stooping in three feet under the trailer. I think whoever installed that couldn't wait to get back to their drinking. At that point, I was ready to start digging straight from pole to well. The trench is done; had to dig a foot of snow to finish it today. At the bottom, there is a nice grey sheet of mineral hardpan caliche like a cement block at 20" so that's it. Now if the pump didn't burn up with all this, I won't have to live like an animal anymore, which I am getting used to! Thanks to the forum, everything is moving ahead. Appreciate all your help and will update ahead.

Final details before purchasing today: Is individual stand 10ga wire or UF 3 wire with ground preferred for running through 1 inch Schedule 40? I plan on gluing Schedule 40 together and pulling wire through with contractor string left in pipe while gluing. Buying sweeping curves for both ends. Are there any specs for running Schedule 40 up through ground into well house? Planning on running up along interior wall 3 feet for where future sub-panel will be. For now, wires will run out of conduit a few feet to pressure switch. Will strand wire across this space be a problem? I could make a temporary conduit to pressure switch and run wires out a few inches to switch.

Individual should cost you less and pull much easier.

ballvalve said:

Individual should cost you less and pull much easier.

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I remember when a friend wanted me to help him pull some wires for his ham shack.
I told him a pull string would be nice. One person can Push and one could pull.

So when he put the conduit in, he put in a plastic pull line.

When I went to help, What a fun time we had. I could not help but laugh.

He had let the PVC cement get on the pull string when gluing the joints, and the string was glued to the PVC in many places.


We sat down and had a few Beers while laughing it off.

Got it! Buy extra PVC cement and beer! Good point. I would not have thought of till after. Buying Schedule 40 now a laying in before next blizzard. Will find individual 10ga conductor tomorrow. Thanks!

CHOLLA BOB said:

Got it! Buy extra PVC cement and beer! Good point. I would not have thought of till after. Buying Schedule 40 now a laying in before next blizzard. Will find individual 10ga conductor tomorrow. Thanks!

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LOL

That is close, Buy plenty of extra pull string, because the other one stays in there.

I also Pull in a extra pull string, or Two with the last wire.

The Beer is a must after a job well done. Get wine for the wife.

Just don't drink and play with electricity, It can be a very shocking experience.

Bob, I have one suggestion for you.
When you run the 4 wires and make them up in the main panel, go ahead and hook up the neutral wire.
This saves you from having to open the main panel when add your sub.

The ends of your conduit should transition to a junction box, then you can run the wire from the junction box to the well using whatever conduit makes the most sense. If it is only a few feet, flexible conduit (commonly called Greenfield) would work. Leaving wires exposed is not a good practice.

I have some poly tie down rope 1/4 inch with a 106 load rating. This may work for the 1 inch PVC conduit and the four lines, but I imagine if you loop the rope around a loop of the four 10ga wires, and lose the splice, then it's about as bad as gluing the rope to the pipe. So it sounds like individual strands can be pulled individually? I may need thinner rope but the contractor string has a 10 pound pull.

The conduit from the well house sub-panel box or temporary breakout box sounds like the way to go. Someone suggested FMC. The most common wire in the well house is the yellow three wire 10ga 600V submersible which is all over the place. If I run the plastic conduit, is it a bad idea to run it across the floor by the water pressure switch (foot off the floor), terminating with a PVC junction box? I would rather do the conduit as it will be clean. Punched a hole through the concrete by the inside wall today.

I could hook up that neutral. That main is such a piece of junk that it looks like I will be going in and working further after this with the exterior 15 amp GFCI outlet which is refusing to suddenly work. This is all Murphy's Holiday Season so far. I will save the beer to fall in the ditch at the end of the job. OSHA says trenching is one of the most hazardous job so will try to stay to one side or the other.

I bought my Schedule 40 1 inch PVC conduit today; cleared out the trench to 22"; and drove down to the big city to buy wire from Home Depot. They don't have 10 gauge THWN individual strand. They have THHN 10 gauge house rated wiring. Also the four wires at 80 feet will run about 155.00. I can go to a contractor's electrical supply tomorrow. I could also run UF four wire through the 1 inch conduit as that was an option: 110.00 for the same run. As my electrician is on vacation until Jan 2, and I have no water, I came up with this solution:

There is no main breaker and no one wants me working with live electric in wet conditions. So, I am going to place a temporary junction box below the main breaker box on the new Schedule 40 conduit coming from the well house. The 240 2-pole 20 amp breaker I installed two weeks ago, will serve as the main off for this circuit. From the 2-pole 20 amp breaker, the old wiring will be spliced to the new individual strand or UF, in an exterior junction box on the service pole. When I do get the electrician out here, he can pull a couple of feet of wire up and rewire into the breaker box. I will not bury or glue this last turn of conduit to the breaker box, but temporarily silicone so it can be switched out for a full length piece, minus the junction box and the splice. This is not ideal, but it beats being in a pine box! And I may have water for the holidays, or move onto the next problem, if it is not the underground line. And it is a top shelf upgrade compared to what was here.