Service Pole to Well House Underground Line Specs

Ballvalve · Dec 21, 2011

My home depot shows 22 cents per 10 ga thhw which is what you want. That is about 80 bucks. UF cable is always more per foot unless the store screwed up.

Finally, you dont need pull rope for 80' of pipe, you can do it with a fish tape in a moment.

No you cant pull individual strands. you stagger the wires and interweave the string and then tape it up.

If you buy UF you can just push it through each piece of pipe and glue it up as you go. only put glue on the male end. No pull is actually required for this little job. Even taped up 4 single strands could be pushed through each pipe section, then pipes glued later.

Also looked at your photo of the pressure switch. damn scary. Bring your 10's into a J-box and then run solid 12 gauge into the switch inside flex conduit. Crimped on terminations would make it an A+ job also. 12 or even 14g will meet franklins specs for your pump.

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 21, 2011

I was quoted 47 cents per foot at Home Depot in New Mexico! 1.92 per foot for four wires. I will go to the pro electric supply store tomorrow and find out their price.

The fish tape is a rollup metal filament with a hook; will have to find one over 80 feet. Taping up a bundle for pulling was what I have seen in the past.

I was wondering about gluing conduit with the wire in place: this probably is only the case for a jacketed wire like UF.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 21, 2011

The pressure switch has been replaced and wired with the 10ga. The 12ga crimp run would be a clean job. It has been pointed out before that 12ga would work. As this line would go 10ga to 12ga and back to 10ga for the well pump, doesn't the constriction create resistance or is this all based on well pump load? This would apply to the box's well breaker: 12ga to 10ga UF that ballvalve noticed in the breaker shot. Glad to know that as my new temp splice will be the same sequence.

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 22, 2011

THHN/THN: Is this 10ga wire acceptable for the underground schedule 40? Having trouble locating THWN in cut feet. 4 wire UF is available. Home Depot said there could be a heat transfer issue between UF and conduit; first time I heard this. I am leaning toward the UF.

TJanak · Dec 22, 2011

I believe underground you need THWN. W for water resistant

Ballvalve · Dec 22, 2011

They interchange fine: http://www.ehow.com/info_8098001_differences-between-thhn-thwn-wire.html

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/e...****&utm_term=B242210&infoParam.campaignId=WI

About 28 cents shorts, and in 600 foot rolls, .22 cents nationally.

Kevink1955 · Dec 22, 2011

Look at the imprint on the wire jacket, most THHN is dual rated as THWN also. It should say it in the jacket. UF installed in conduit does not meet code, the only time you can put UF in conduit is for protection in an exposed area as in runing up the pole to your panel. In the ground it should be buryed as it comes off the roll.

Stick with the conduit and THHN/THWN. Also if you have an air compressor you can blow the pull string in later, can also be sucked in with a vaccum but I do not like doing that as some vaccums pass the exaust air over the motor and the vapors in the conduit from the PVC cement are flamable.

Ballvalve · Dec 22, 2011

The sure fire way to install a line is to use water. maybe I am the only one. make my own plug. the old slip and glue works good too. Never opened conduit without getting wet anyway.

For vaccuum, a gast vac pump - not a shop vac can pull 28 hg and might even crush the pipe if you left it on too long and tight. Get them surplus cheap.

JWelectric · Dec 22, 2011

TJanak said:
I believe underground you need THWN. W for water resistant

quit believing as this is true. now instead of believing you are knowing

Pipehacker · Dec 22, 2011

kevink1955 said:
. UF installed in conduit does not meet code, the only time you can put UF in conduit is for protection in an exposed area as in runing up the pole to your panel. In the ground it should be buryed as it comes off the roll.

.

I am learning a lot from following this discussion, and forgive my ignorant question, but what is the logic behind UF being suitable for inground use but not suitable for inconduit use? Is there a reason why code apparently prohits inconduit use?

JWelectric · Dec 22, 2011

There is no restriction on installing UF in a raceway. As a matter of fact single conductors must be in a raceway where they emerge for underground.

For more information see Article 340 of the NEC

Kevink1955 · Dec 22, 2011

Thanks JW

I was thinking NM while typing UF, Type NM is not acceptable in any wet location. The conduit does not make a wet locaton dry. I would still go with THHN/THWN rated single conductors, they pull so easy in PVC.

Sorry for the miss information, code books at work and I am not going back till after New Years

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 22, 2011

kevink1955 said:
Look at the imprint on the wire jacket, most THHN is dual rated as THWN also. It should say it in the jacket.

That was it. After the long drive last night, Home Depot had only THHN. Researched and spoke with my electrician who confirmed this THHN: the Home Depot THHN has the THWN marked on the wire. No one bothered to notice, but I saw the second THWN rating on a craigslist photo late last night. Drove through a blizzard, bought three strands at 47 cents per foot. Lowes is more. Seems like we are not the national average here. The Depot rolled a short length with the two other strands, so we separated the wire stretched out for 85 aisle feet, causing shopper bottlenecking. The main electric rep said he had never seen anything like this for 11 years.

Circumstantial Info: I have been told twice, that jacketed UF has restricted heat transfer in conduit. A Home Depot rep told me that in the country, UF in conduit is accepted because of varmints eating wire; the high frequency sounds emanating from the wire drive the varmints insane and they chew the wire to terminate the sound. Conduit protects wires from rabid varmints. I will have to find the code ordinance referencing this.

JWelectric · Dec 23, 2011

CHOLLA BOB said:
Circumstantial Info: I have been told twice, that jacketed UF has restricted heat transfer in conduit. A Home Depot rep told me that in the country, UF in conduit is accepted because of varmints eating wire; the high frequency sounds emanating from the wire drive the varmints insane and they chew the wire to terminate the sound. Conduit protects wires from rabid varmints. I will have to find the code ordinance referencing this.

I was rolling in the floor laughing when I read this. Don't believe everything you hear as this is the biggest line of bull I have heard in many a year

Kevink1955 · Dec 23, 2011

CHOLLA BOB said:
That was it. After the long drive last night, Home Depot had only THHN. Researched and spoke with my electrician who confirmed this THHN: the Home Depot THHN has the THWN marked on the wire. No one bothered to notice, but I saw the second THWN rating on a craigslist photo late last night. Drove through a blizzard, bought three strands at 47 cents per foot. Lowes is more. Seems like we are not the national average here. The Depot rolled a short length with the two other strands, so we separated the wire stretched out for 85 aisle feet, causing shopper bottlenecking. The main electric rep said he had never seen anything like this for 11 years.

Bob
Only 3 strands, I thought you were going to install a small sub panel (at a later date) so you shound have 4 conductors H,H,N,G, I am assuming you went with 10ga as the original plan? 47 cents a foot WOW, I remember when the entire spool was $70 for 500 feet

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 23, 2011

Home Depot has changed my entire viewpoint about varmints.

I put the sub-panel on hold as the electrician suggested using 8ga wire and I decided to sort this out latter; the strand and 1 inch conduit will keep options open ahead. I am staying with 10ga as previous used UF. I had to decide if I was going to pay 40 dollars extra for a neutral stand that would not be used for now. Focusing on getting the well pump running again, and there could be other problems. I may leave the trench open. If the electrician approves additional strands in the 1 inch conduit, I can add latter. If he says I need an additional conduit run for the sub-panel, I can add a PVC run for 35 dollars and fill. If I should run that extra stand of neutral wire, I still have time to purchase and pull through if I that's the way to go! Thanks!

Ballvalve · Dec 23, 2011

jwelectric said:
I was rolling in the floor laughing when I read this. Don't believe everything you hear as this is the biggest line of bull I have heard in many a year

I trust you were not laughing about conduit protecting wire from rats. And rodents most assuredly Do eat cable covering and more. Why? I have a run of roomolux with an inch of wire exposed every 6 feet by rodents.

And to the wire guy. run the 10 neutral now, but its sad to see one support those bix box disasters when they charge you 2x + 3 cents for wire. I just sold 2000 feet of 10g for .22 cents a foot. Bought several thousand pounds at auction when a huge tungsten mine went out of business. Actually Amazon sells it for 20 cents.

DonL · Dec 23, 2011

CHOLLA BOB said:
I put the sub-panel on hold as the electrician suggested using 8ga

Using a 8 Gauge wire will be a overkill for the length of wire that you are running, for a Water Pump and a light. And to much for your Current Power panel to supply. (Are You Planning to Connect a RV, Or what ??)

Your current Power Panel Should be replaced with one that has a Main Breaker, Then later you can kill the power without all this Fuss.

You can use the wire that you have now for the 2 hots and Neutral, and add a smaller Ground wire.

I think that you have to many people working on your project.

Anyone, Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank You in advance.

As always, Be Careful Playing With Electricity...

CHOLLA BOB · Dec 23, 2011

I agree. I could throw in a neutral anyway but don't want to get into a debate with the electrician (8ga, 30amp breaker etc.) as I would be just another pain-in-the-ass amateur. Going with the three wires was paring down to address the situation. Pulling a fourth wire through that 1 inch conduit, latter, is easy or hard?

That poltergeist main service pole panel has got to go.

Between the new bad 15 amp breaker next to the well breaker, the underground line installation, and what Porky detailed in the well thread on checking for a short at or below the control box (there is a audio continuity at the control box), I am minimizing the project to get to the problem. My Irish wife blames me for everything. Happy Holidays!!!

DonL · Dec 23, 2011

CHOLLA BOB said:
I agree. I could throw in a neutral anyway but don't want to get into a debate with the electrician (8ga, 30amp breaker etc.) as I would be just another pain-in-the-ass amateur. Going with the three wires was paring down to address the situation. Pulling a fourth wire through that 1 inch conduit, latter, is easy or hard?

That poltergeist main service pole panel has got to go.

Between the new bad 15 amp breaker next to the well breaker, the underground line installation, and what Someone detailed in the well thread on checking for a short at or below the control box (there is a audio continuity at the control box), I am minimizing the project to get to the problem. My wife blames me for everything. Happy Holidays!!!

That is one reason that I recommend the Electrical Forum for the wiring.

There are some Pump people that know electrical , but I know a few.

Do not give up, your wife just Loves You. You can not blame her for speaking the truth.

Happy Holidays!!!

Service Pole to Well House Underground Line Specs

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