PEX questions

I am renovating a Bathroom. When I put in the new sink instead of using copper pipe I want to use PEX if possible. My house does not have any PEX or manifold.
Is it possibly to connect PEX to existing copper pipes in basement and run it up and connect it to a vanity tap like a Moen.
If so is there a connector I need to transition from copper to PEX?
Is there different PEX for hot and cold?
what would I need tool wise.

Thanks in advance.

I like the copper crimp ring system. You would use a sweat to PEX fitting, sweat it on to your copper line, then slide a copper ring over the end of the new PEX line, slide it over the barbed PEX fitting, and use a copper ring crimp tool to crimp it down.

They make red and blue PEX to indicate hot and cold, but its just for convenience. There is no real difference, you could run it all in white, red, blue, whatever. I use the red and blue, it can be nice to know what you're looking at when you come across it.

The tools can be a bit pricey... good PEX crimp tools are $150 or so for each size. You can get a fairly cheap tool for around $50 that does several sizes, which for you would probably be the best bet. Just make sure to get the Go-NoGo gauge and check all your connections.

Or for $30 (propane, torch head, solder, flux, brushes/sand cloth) you could solder 100+ fittings...

There are transistion fittings from almost anything to anything, and copper to PEX is a common one. You can use the same PEX for hot or cold. Some places use blue and red to make it easier during rough-in for people to tell which is which before they get connected to the fixtures, but it is irrelevant whether it is colored or not.

PEX is made by multiple companies in one of three types -A, -B, and -C. It depends on which type you have, what tools and fittings you need. Basically, it's best to buy the fittings for the brand and type of PEX you choose. -B and -C typically us a barbed fitting and a crimp ring. -A uses a different barbed fitting and a reinforcement ring. The former needs a crimping tool, the later needs an expander tool. Wirsbo is the primary supplier of -A tubing.

while you can put shutoffs near your sink directly on the PEX, since the PEX is flexible and not easily anchored, you may want to transition back to copper stubouts to anchor it and use a conventional shutoff. Actually, the compression shutoff valve is the same, except if used directly on PEX, you must use the internal metal reinforcement ferrule designed for this to give it support for the compression fitting to work. The expander tool is quite a bit more expensive than a crimping tool unless you can rent one, but personally, is my preference. Any locally available tubing and fittings should work fine, though.

dlarrivee said:

Or for $30 (propane, torch head, solder, flux, brushes/sand cloth) you could solder 100+ fittings...

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Which you could easily end up needing those 100 fittings to snake those lines up to where they need to go. At today's copper prices vs PEX pricing, your argument fails already. Assuming the owner knows how to properly sweat copper, it will probably cost them more to do just this run in copper than to buy the PEX tools and the few needed fittings. Then they'll have the tool for if they do more later.

There was no argument, just an alternative.

Lets be real here, home-owner joe buys a pex crimper for $150+, crimps 10 fittings and it collects dust for 10 years.

dlarrivee said:

There was no argument, just an alternative.

Lets be real here, home-owner joe buys a pex crimper for $150+, crimps 10 fittings and it collects dust for 10 years.

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Hence why I suggested the $50 tool for his use. $50 pex tool, $30 in soldering stuff... not a big difference. The price shock comes when you start buying copper lines and fittings...

But yes, copper is a viable alternative. I don't dislike copper per se, I just prefer Pex.

You do dislike copper, it is obvious, I'm going to johnwhipple you from now on.

Come on.......two sharkbite tees and Bob's your uncle......You can do it, we can help

dlarrivee said:

You do dislike copper, it is obvious, I'm going to johnwhipple you from now on.

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Hahaha, bring it on

Seriously, I don't "dislike" copper. I think it is/was a fine system. The main reason I push so hard the benefits of PEX is that I think there are a lot of rumors and false ideas out there about it, perpetuated by old school plumbers who are either afraid of PEX, just don't want to change, etc. I do prefer PEX, and wouldn't be likely to choose copper in many circumstances, though there are some (my radiant floor heating system is all copper between the tank/pumps/etc. The circuits and each floor's manifolds are PEX. I use copper manifolds for my PEX, not those plastic things. I just don't like whole house copper systems as much these days, after having a home run PEX system, I'll never go back.

To be fair, a couple of pitfalls of PEX...
It is less resistant to a glancing blow from a nail head or screw. Copper "might" survive a glancing hit, PEX probably won't. If it is very loose, it might move out of the way enough to be saved, but generally it is more susceptible to this type of damage. Direct hits will puncture both copper and PEX equally.
Apparently mice sometimes will chew through it, though I've heard very few actual accounts of this, just rumors. Copper isn't really attractive to our rodent friends as an entry point to the home.
It looks "cheaper," if you care about the appearance of quality over the experience of quality.
It hasn't been proven as many years as copper (a bit over 40 years of continuous use has shown no real problems, other than some initial issues with some of the fittings that has been resolved since).
The fittings can cause reductions in flow rate, especially if you use a lot of them for some strange reason (but so do copper fittings, in different ways)
The pro tools are expensive.
Its worthless if you're a scrapper trying to steal someone's plumbing... oh wait, thats a good thing.

Thanks

Food for thought. My copper and soldering skills are good.
It may be cheaper just to run copper.

If you already own a torch, the initial investment is 0.

I'm having a hard time liking PEX for one of the reasons he mentioned, the appearance of it. In an unfinished basement, I'd rather see a clean copper job, vs. an ugly PEX job. It's hard to make PEX look good.

The biggest reason I'd suggest PEX to someone else is if they're working around a lot of combustible materials or in really tight spots, PEX shines there.

PEX or copper, copper or PEX...

Both have their place in a home, so know both. The truth is, in order to use PEX, you HAVE to know how to sweet pipes. In fact you need to be good at it because the brass PEX barbs require a bit more heat (or longer torch time).

I use both in my home...and my friends homes. Invest in quality tools because cheap tools will only piss you off.

dlarrivee said:

I'm having a hard time liking PEX for one of the reasons he mentioned, the appearance of it. In an unfinished basement, I'd rather see a clean copper job, vs. an ugly PEX job. It's hard to make PEX look good.

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Maybe... but I drill my PEX through all studs, or offset clip it to parallel studs, so its all nice and straight and clean. I also insulate all of my pipes, so copper or PEX, it all looks the same.

But then again, I don't buy things b/c they appear to be of quality, I buy things b/c I experience their quality. A properly installed PEX system has everyday advantages that I care far more about than the look of it in my basement.

Gary in NJ said:

PEX or copper, copper or PEX...

Both have their place in a home, so know both. The truth is, in order to use PEX, you HAVE to know how to sweet pipes. In fact you need to be good at it because the brass PEX barbs require a bit more heat (or longer torch time).

I use both in my home...and my friends homes. Invest in quality tools because cheap tools will only piss you off.

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The brass fittings do take a tad more heat. And yes, if you're adapting from copper to PEX, you will have to know how to sweat a fitting. This is a good point.

I do only buy the good tools, but for a homeowner just doing a dozen crimps, the cheap one would be sufficient. If they're planning on doing a lot of work with it, then by all means buy the good tools.

In your situation, if the runs aren't particularly long or twisty (i.e. you won't need a ton of copper fittings), you might be better off keeping with copper. I will work with existing copper setups, but if i'm redoing a whole room, I'll convert to PEX. Since you don't have the PEX tools already (and assuming you won't be using them a lot later if you do buy them), you might want to just stick with copper.

dlarrivee, does this help convince you that i'm not a JW'er of copper? I just advised that he not only keep his copper, but run new copper!

You've just seen the light.

dlarrivee said:

You've just seen the light.

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I dunno about all that...

If you want to JW me, that would be for my soapbox against SharkBites, since they were brought up as an option. Junk, and expensive junk at that. Yep, now I sound like JW.

Go easy on me