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Thread: which waterproofing system for new shower?

  1. #61
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Licquid membranes work fine...personally, I think it's easier to ensure you don't have a pinhole leak with a sheet membrane. Whatever floats your boat. If you're worried you can't do a decent job, then a conventional shower may be better, or just a fiberglass enclosure - one-piece, therefore no seams. Course there's ways to mess that up, too...lousy connection to the drain, inadequate floor install so it flexes and eventually cracks, but hey...truly, and I'm being as honest as I can here, any system properly installed works. Kerdi goes up like a big sheet of wallpaper. I think it's faster and tougher than a paint/roll on membrane. Pick your poison, do it properly, and don't lose sleep over it.

    Any system, improperly installed will leak, often for a long time before the evidence is obvious. Once the tile is up, it is really hard to tell. That's why you test things first and hopefully have good work practices.

    Some people swear on Chevys, some on Ford, some on Toyota...they each have their strong points and will get you from point A to point B. In the big picture, does it really matter?
    Last edited by jadnashua; 12-18-2011 at 09:07 AM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #62
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:35 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #63
    In the Trades mtcummins's Avatar
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    John, are you incapable of reading the links that we've posted 100 times now? How can you still honestly claim that Schluter doesn't allow drywall?

    Look back, everyone reading this, at JW's own post of Dale, the top tech at Schluter's input on this. DRYWALL IS ABSOLUTELY PERMITTED IN SHOWER INSTALLS USING KERDI WATERPROOFING. This is FACT, 100%, INDISPUTABLE unless you choose to IGNORE all of the stuff that JW keeps claiming to be following.

    Again, I'll say, if JW would just give up on making crap up, ignoring all the evidence, all the facts, etc, and just state why he prefers what he considers better construction methods, I'd be fine. I have no problem with most systems (I don't like RedGuard much, but otherwise...) if they're installed properly. Properly as regards Kerdi is over drywall or CBU. You can choose whichever you prefer, but don't come on here spouting crap that is blatantly false and confusing everyone.

    If anyone hasn't figured it out yet, this is the truth of the matter: Drywall is permitted behind Kerdi in a shower. If you don't like it (as JW clearly doesn't), then don't use it, but know that it is permitted both by Schluter and by the testing agencies. Use the proper specified thinset with whatever system you use. Simple as that.

    I, for one, won't follow someone's advice (regardless of how many years of experience they have) that refuses to read or believe any official certifications presented to him and continues to spread his opinions with lies of them being supported by all the associations. That is not a good start to a professional's advice.

    You do what you like. The way John says to install a shower is also correct. You won't go wrong doing it his way. But don't believe his crap that the manufacturers recommended methods are both not approved by the manufacturer (yeah, still scratching my head how he can make that claim...) and not allowed by all the testing agencies (which we've seen proof of the opposite).

  4. #64
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  5. #65
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    thinset won't stick to drywall compound. Good point!

    Does Schluter write a lot of tips about this? I think not. Schluter is the one who is leaving things out, and running fast and footloose.

    I cannot imagine Schluter writing that one might put drywall on a curb and then thinset kerdi to that surface. Drywall should not be used to bear weight. Especially not dynamic weight. But if John has found that Schluter has written it somewhere, I'll believe John because he has always been determined and thorough.

    Bottom line: Kerdi is a lot of work. Other membraning systems are very very good.

  6. #66
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  7. #67
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The report I referenced listed those backers, and I listed them, but didn't include their certifications. I've also said that pick the backer that makes you happy and has been approved for the system and then sleep well, but also that it has been tested and proven to work with drywall. The Kerdi membrane with the layer of thinset underneath and on top, then, plus the tile on the surface is at least as sturdy as the foam kerb, if not stronger. If you don't feel comfortable about it, use one of the other approved backers over your solid wood curb, or use concrete blocks, or the foam. Unless you end up with a water problem, and if you build the shower properly that shouldn't happen, the wood won't swell. Now, if your wood was left out in the rain for ages, or the roof wasn't installed for awhile, then all of the framing could be suspect and it's moisture content excessive and you could have problems. It's not a good idea to use pressure treated, either, unless it is KDAT (kiln dried after treatment) stuff (which is hard to find, but is available).

    Most of the people looking here are DIY'ers, modifying a house to either add or replace a shower. In this case, the house is covered, and they're probably buying many of their materials at a big box store that, hopefully, has stuff that won't sit out in the rain on new construction while the place is being closed in. Drywall works, as do the other listed products, and when installed properly, will remain dry with their full strength and integrity. Every situation is different, so pick your products to match your situation. Installing Kerdi is only a little more rigerous than installing wallpaper except you need to cover the seams and there's no patterns to align, so you can be a little sloppier since it will be covered with your decorative tile layer. You don't want bubbles or excess lumps of the adhesive (in this case thinset). Not that hard to do if you understand what's required, and quite reliable.

    Re John Bridge's site, just like here, there is a combination of pros who tile every day and DIY'ers asking and answering questions. There are lots more pro tilers there that regularly monitor and respond to questions, and if something is contrary to best practices, it's usually corrected quickly. Just like any free advice, you need to filter it. They do not, generally, delete responses, so finding one that is incorrect isn't that rare. Finding an incorrect one that has not been corrected, is rare.

    There's been an implied statement the I am being paid by Schluter...if so, I'd like to know where that money went, as I've never seen it!
    Last edited by jadnashua; 12-18-2011 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spelling error
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #68
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    No money is changing hands, to make you a paid Schluter-ite. That's my take on it. The best promoters are unpaid, as they are believers. Over the years you've been happy to write time and again all that the JB forum and Schluter have been leading you to think. The JB forum is not all that pure. Schluter marketing people know what the JB forum is up to. I've written about it before and we can build that discussion again.

  9. #69
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #70
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
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    Some people who are not even in Canada are upper US (sorry)
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  11. #71
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #72
    DIY Junior Member crabb13's Avatar
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    Hey john,

    Do you have a side email, I could ask you some questions on. I live in alberta and would like to ask you some questions about suppliers. you can email me at james.crabb@lethbridge.ca

  13. #73
    DIY Junior Member Manny1981's Avatar
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    Hey John,

    Give BondTAC a try. Company called Gluetek in NY sells it, and it's shipped directly from the manufacturing plant in Ontario. It sounds like you've used plenty of other membranes, and this one is definitely worth a try. It goes on thin - you want it to be about 4 mil thick. It's also an air/vapor barrier, and as an adhesive...it's rated at a vertical shear strength of 2000 lbs per 4' x 8' section Bonds to thin set like a sonuvagun. And a minimum of 225 sq ft. per gallon coverage. Might be a nice replacement for Laticrete / RedGard, etc, I think.

  14. #74
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  15. #75
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default GlueTek - Promoter of BondTac

    post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

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