Triangle Tube Prestige Boiler Problems, Solutions & Question

[larryleveen]

We had a Prestige Solo 60 boiler installed with a new hydronic system. It seemed to be working OK, but when the weather got cold, it would display an error (I think error code 02 or 03) which meant that the boiler had tried the ignition sequence 5 times and was in a lockout mode. Hitting the resent button would always make it work again, but eventually the same thing would happen. We were resetting 2 or 3 times a day, so we called our installer. He contacted Triangle Tube and it turns out they had some bad controller units (the "brains" of the boiler, I think) have this issue. They sent a part out for free in a few days, and upon install, it hasn't had that issue again (knock wood). Hooray!

As a side note, our system uses an indirect DHW tank heated by this boiler, and uses a separate temperature sensor (instead of the one built into the tank) wired to the boiler. When the boiler brain was replaced, factory settings did not include the one telling the boiler to use this sensor (the installer forgot this). The result was that we had heat, but no hot water. It took a day for us to notice, because there was hot water in the tank. I called the installer, and since I save manuals, we were able to figure out the cause after a little communication, and he coached me through making a change in the boiler settings to use the separate DHW temperature sensor. Restarted the boiler and badda-boom, badda-bing -- hot water. Hooray!

The boiler (I believe) occasionally make single "thud" nose. Quiter than a "boom". I thought this might go away when the new brain/controller was installed, but it remains. I am a little concerned about this. Could the noise be delayed combustion -- happening in the (PVC!) exhaust pipe? Any other ideas folks?

[Dana]

Micro-explosions in the exhaust are possible, and are a symptom that should not be ignored, since it can crack the PVC leading to exhuast gases getting into conditioned space. The control systems usually run the exhaust blower for several seconds prior to supplying gas to the burner on an ignition cycle, and do a similar flue purge at the end of the burn. If your's has a history of ignition failures, inspect the PVC carefully- it may need to be replaced. And if it's truly getting occasional micro-explosions it could be an indication of something actually wrong (with either the unit, or the installation.)

[Buffalobillpatrick]

I installed a TT Solo 60 in my house 6 months ago.
Prior to purchase, Via email TT tech support stated that this unit would work fine at my 8,500' altitude & LP
Have been fighting ignition problem entire time.
5 fails to light in a row gives E02 hard error & unit must be reset MANUALY on front panel.
No pins seem available for an external reset signal.
I have replaced both LP pressure regulators & set pressure to 11.5" WC
I bought a new combustion analyzer $$$ & set throttle screw, all numbers are in spec.
I have removed & inspected the spark igniter & ground.
I had had a different LP supplier top off my tank with about 500 gal.
Factory sent out a new control board (green dot) This was a total waste of time as unit would not fire ONCE
I now gives a hard E02 once or twice a week.
About half the time it lights off with a small backfire sound.
Spark seems to run for about 3 seconds with gas valve clicking open about half way through.
TT tech support will not answer my emails.
Very frustrated!

[Dana]

DIY mod-con installs can have all sorts of issues obvious to the factory trained tech (or not) which may be why tech support stopped answering your queries. The Solos are a very popular series in my neck of the wood, with plenty of competent installers to pick from. But we don't have any o' that cheap lo-rent air with only half the oxygen in it the way you do at 8500' in CO, which could be at least part of your issue (which is why you asked tech support before moving ahead on it.) It's probably worth hunting down a local installer with some training and a good relation ship with the distributor & factory and PAY them to take a crack at debugging it. (Calling the local/regional distributor for a reference isn't a bad place to start- they'll know who has installed and is supporting dozens of them locally.)

The backfire sound is almost surely a small gas explosion, and there can be serious consequences when PVC venting is compromised by this type of symptom.

[larryleveen]

Buffalobill,

Did you have the controller replaced as I have? That eliminated the failure to ignite issue resulting in hard lockout E02 code requiring reset.

TT is aware of the issue, sent out a new controller and the issue is fixed.

I just called TT regarding my remaining issue -- that of an occasional thump or thud noise, which I suspect is delayed combustion, and which Dana says I should indeed be worried about. TT said:

It could indeed be delayed combustion, which is bad. To help figure this out, a combustion gas analyzer is helpful. The values of % CO2 in should be between 8.8-10.5. Among the problems that could cause delayed combustion are:

- The igniter is not gapped properly

- The spark cable might be contacting something metal in the boiler. It shouldn't, and cable ties can be used to secure it properly, but do not have the unit powered on when checking this!

- The supply gas pressure should be between 5"-13" water column (I am on natural gas, so I don't know if this applies or what the values are for propane, sorry).

- During ignition, the supply gas pressure should not drop more than 1".

I am setting up an appointment with my installer to check these things. I'll check the PVC piping too -- thanks for that warning, Dana!

[BadgerBoilerMN]

"The supply gas pressure should be between 5"-13" water column"

Reading and understanding the installation manual are two different things. Both are necessary for the safe and efficient installation of a condensing boiler. The manufacturer takes great risk in coaching the DIYer over the phone, whether they have a combustion analyser or not. By the way, for the cost of a combustion analyser, a trained professional can come out every other year for the life of the unit and will likely know how to use the analyser he brings with him.

At 8500', special care must be taken to get safe, reliable ignition. Amatuers need not apply.

I know; just change out the board, the ignitor, the vent pipe, the high limit control, the out door sensor, the gas valve...

I am sure all the folks here will give you good (intentioned) advice. After all, you don't know them and they would know you if they saw you in the obits.

Fact is, a good factory-trained technician saves time, money and maybe the house.

[tk03]

I find at altitude that a static pressure on LP of 13" w.c. is better. What is the O2 on high and low speed? Is the venting according to the manual?

[montanajack]

(1) I have a Solo 110 that makes a horn-like sound just after firing, goes away after about 15 seconds as boiler moves to "high fire". (2) Also, I smell raw gas coming from the intake elbow that connects to the venturi when in standby. TT told me that there should not be a gas smell anywhere! So they arranged to have a guy put in a new gas valve. That didn't fix it. Sometimes I smell gas in the room. Anybody have trouble like this?
Jack

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Get a lot of altitude in Harrisburg?

I actually started my condensing boiler radiant floor career about 8000' in the mountains west of Denver. I don't think that first boiler ever did light reliably, but the new boilers are a breed apart. In Colorado there is no excuse for going without professional help. Good hydronic contractors abound.

Find a competent professional with any condensing boiler factory-sponsored training. Gas leaks are not to be fooled with. For that matter condensing boilers are not for the novice installer. This is not the forum (it doesn't exist) for diagnosing condensing boiler problems. Too many mistakes can be made in the translation. I have worked on condensing boilers, sold and manufactured them since the 80's and yes even helped technicians repair them over the phone, but the smart ones came in to the schools and rarely called for help. These professionals are available just about everywhere high efficiency condensing boilers are sold - internet sales notwithstanding.


http://www.badgerboilerservice.com/contractor.html

[Buffalobillpatrick]

Larry,
yes I put in new control board with green dot, would not fire off even once, I returned it to TT, now using original board that fires off most of the time.
I also get a variable delayed ignition noise.

I engineered & installed a solonoid that automatically pushes the reset button when E02 happens, this way I can leave house for extended time when its cold outside.

Implementation:
When an E02 happens, either the DHW or the CH pump remains on. I use this to pick a relay (one for each pump) the relay N/O points isolate the 2 pumps from each other & provide 120vac to an adjustable Fenwal thermal switch (break on temp rise) I mounted this on the boiler supply pipe & set it to 110*
If the thermal switch is cooler than 110* the 120vac is sent to a 10 minute Time Delay Relay (delay on make) (TDR)
If 10 minutes expire & the boiler is not producing hot water, the 120vac is sent on to a 2 second TDR, this relay passes the 120vac on to a 9vdc mini power supply that energizes the solonoid which pushes the reset button for 2 seconds. A set of N/C points in the 2 sec. TDR opens at 2 sec. & opens the 120vac to the 10 min. TDR which resets its 10 min. cycle. So this will retry every 10 min. if required.
WORKS EVERY TIME!

I have received advice from a different brand factory Tech support guy to open up the gap by 1/16" to about 5/16" & add a better ground wire.

I have adjusted the gas throttle screw from rich to lean ends of spec repeatedly, make no difference on E02. Right now its toward the lean end in order to get CO into spec.
High Fire CO2=11.1, O2=4.0, X-air=23.6, CO=86ppm

Venting is correct, I think, about 20' equivalent of 3" PVC. Both vent & intake go through rim board about 1' below floor which is about 3' below boiler.

Badger, I have exchanged emails with Mark Etherton (sp?) Denver based pro. He said he would have to charge about 1/3 of what I payed for the boiler to come down for a day & troubleshoot it, no guarentees to fix it. I live in BFE, very remote mountain area, no local TT pros.

BBP

[tray]

Seen this before, this noise is caused by an improper air to fuel mix.you will need screwdriver, co analyzer, and patience cause its in tight spot. Dont quote me on this but i believe number is around 9.8 but can be verified through triangle tube. And dont let them side track you with ignitor replacement, thats there solution for everything

[larryleveen]

Tray, are you responding to my post about the thud noise, or are you replying to Buffalobillpatrick's issue?

[BadgerBoilerMN]

There is simply no way to set or adjust combustion on any high efficiency condensing boiler without the use of a properly calibrated combustion analyzer in the hands of a skilled technician. Part of the cost of living remotely is finding professionals to do the things you cannot. No good can come from your efforts here. You are experiencing delayed ignition, but the implications of this one symptom can lead to many unhappy consequences. No one here or elsewhere can help you, even if the knew how.

I know, I'm bad, but still the only one haunting this DIY wasteland that works on condensing boilers for a living, and most of them, poor to really dangerously installations. I wager that Mark is not the only qualified condensing boiler heating technician in Colorado. Any contractor with condensing boiler training and experience should be able to help. The local rep or distributor (especially the one that sold the unit) should be able to give you a referral.

[larryleveen]

I spoke too soon -- the new controller isn't igniting properly. That's because they sent us the an "uncorrected" controller (no green dot). A new one just arrived, and will be installed soon. I fear it will only correct some of the problems. I'll update the thread or make a new one since it kinda got hijacked (sorry BB).

BTW, the tech bulletin for TT bad ignition is at: http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/pos...nt_8022011.pdf

[Buffalobillpatrick]

Thanks a bunch Larry.

I'm unsure of where I'm at in this mess, as my replacement MCBA with the green dot wouldn't fire at all.