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Thread: Triangle Tube Prestige Boiler Problems, Solutions & Question

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  1. #1

    Default Triangle Tube Prestige Boiler Problems, Solutions & Question

    We had a Prestige Solo 60 boiler installed with a new hydronic system. It seemed to be working OK, but when the weather got cold, it would display an error (I think error code 02 or 03) which meant that the boiler had tried the ignition sequence 5 times and was in a lockout mode. Hitting the resent button would always make it work again, but eventually the same thing would happen. We were resetting 2 or 3 times a day, so we called our installer. He contacted Triangle Tube and it turns out they had some bad controller units (the "brains" of the boiler, I think) have this issue. They sent a part out for free in a few days, and upon install, it hasn't had that issue again (knock wood). Hooray!

    As a side note, our system uses an indirect DHW tank heated by this boiler, and uses a separate temperature sensor (instead of the one built into the tank) wired to the boiler. When the boiler brain was replaced, factory settings did not include the one telling the boiler to use this sensor (the installer forgot this). The result was that we had heat, but no hot water. It took a day for us to notice, because there was hot water in the tank. I called the installer, and since I save manuals, we were able to figure out the cause after a little communication, and he coached me through making a change in the boiler settings to use the separate DHW temperature sensor. Restarted the boiler and badda-boom, badda-bing -- hot water. Hooray!

    The boiler (I believe) occasionally make single "thud" nose. Quiter than a "boom". I thought this might go away when the new brain/controller was installed, but it remains. I am a little concerned about this. Could the noise be delayed combustion -- happening in the (PVC!) exhaust pipe? Any other ideas folks?
    Last edited by larryleveen; 12-02-2011 at 12:34 PM.

  2. #2
    In the trades Dana's Avatar
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    Micro-explosions in the exhaust are possible, and are a symptom that should not be ignored, since it can crack the PVC leading to exhuast gases getting into conditioned space. The control systems usually run the exhaust blower for several seconds prior to supplying gas to the burner on an ignition cycle, and do a similar flue purge at the end of the burn. If your's has a history of ignition failures, inspect the PVC carefully- it may need to be replaced. And if it's truly getting occasional micro-explosions it could be an indication of something actually wrong (with either the unit, or the installation.)

  3. #3
    DIY Member Buffalobillpatrick's Avatar
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    Default TT Solo 60

    I installed a TT Solo 60 in my house 6 months ago.
    Prior to purchase, Via email TT tech support stated that this unit would work fine at my 8,500' altitude & LP
    Have been fighting ignition problem entire time.
    5 fails to light in a row gives E02 hard error & unit must be reset MANUALY on front panel.
    No pins seem available for an external reset signal.
    I have replaced both LP pressure regulators & set pressure to 11.5" WC
    I bought a new combustion analyzer $$$ & set throttle screw, all numbers are in spec.
    I have removed & inspected the spark igniter & ground.
    I had had a different LP supplier top off my tank with about 500 gal.
    Factory sent out a new control board (green dot) This was a total waste of time as unit would not fire ONCE
    I now gives a hard E02 once or twice a week.
    About half the time it lights off with a small backfire sound.
    Spark seems to run for about 3 seconds with gas valve clicking open about half way through.
    TT tech support will not answer my emails.
    Very frustrated!

  4. #4
    In the trades Dana's Avatar
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    DIY mod-con installs can have all sorts of issues obvious to the factory trained tech (or not) which may be why tech support stopped answering your queries. The Solos are a very popular series in my neck of the wood, with plenty of competent installers to pick from. But we don't have any o' that cheap lo-rent air with only half the oxygen in it the way you do at 8500' in CO, which could be at least part of your issue (which is why you asked tech support before moving ahead on it.) It's probably worth hunting down a local installer with some training and a good relation ship with the distributor & factory and PAY them to take a crack at debugging it. (Calling the local/regional distributor for a reference isn't a bad place to start- they'll know who has installed and is supporting dozens of them locally.)

    The backfire sound is almost surely a small gas explosion, and there can be serious consequences when PVC venting is compromised by this type of symptom.

  5. #5

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    Buffalobill,

    Did you have the controller replaced as I have? That eliminated the failure to ignite issue resulting in hard lockout E02 code requiring reset.

    TT is aware of the issue, sent out a new controller and the issue is fixed.

    I just called TT regarding my remaining issue -- that of an occasional thump or thud noise, which I suspect is delayed combustion, and which Dana says I should indeed be worried about. TT said:

    It could indeed be delayed combustion, which is bad. To help figure this out, a combustion gas analyzer is helpful. The values of % CO2 in should be between 8.8-10.5. Among the problems that could cause delayed combustion are:

    - The igniter is not gapped properly

    - The spark cable might be contacting something metal in the boiler. It shouldn't, and cable ties can be used to secure it properly, but do not have the unit powered on when checking this!

    - The supply gas pressure should be between 5"-13" water column (I am on natural gas, so I don't know if this applies or what the values are for propane, sorry).

    - During ignition, the supply gas pressure should not drop more than 1".

    I am setting up an appointment with my installer to check these things. I'll check the PVC piping too -- thanks for that warning, Dana!

  6. #6
    Master Hot Water Mpls,MN BadgerBoilerMN's Avatar
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    "The supply gas pressure should be between 5"-13" water column"

    Reading and understanding the installation manual are two different things. Both are necessary for the safe and efficient installation of a condensing boiler. The manufacturer takes great risk in coaching the DIYer over the phone, whether they have a combustion analyser or not. By the way, for the cost of a combustion analyser, a trained professional can come out every other year for the life of the unit and will likely know how to use the analyser he brings with him.

    At 8500', special care must be taken to get safe, reliable ignition. Amatuers need not apply.

    I know; just change out the board, the ignitor, the vent pipe, the high limit control, the out door sensor, the gas valve...

    I am sure all the folks here will give you good (intentioned) advice. After all, you don't know them and they would know you if they saw you in the obits.

    Fact is, a good factory-trained technician saves time, money and maybe the house.

  7. #7
    DIY Member tk03's Avatar
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    I find at altitude that a static pressure on LP of 13" w.c. is better. What is the O2 on high and low speed? Is the venting according to the manual?

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    DIY Junior Member Kurt Webber's Avatar
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    Default Micro-explosions in the exhaust of a Prestige Solo Triangle Tube boiler

    I had a prestige Solo 110 Triangle Tube water boiler with a hot water heater installed. I did not realize I was having micro-explosions until one day when I was standing in front of the exhaust. I reported it to my contractor but he did nothing. The explosions continue and with they happen now they blow the condensation tube off the bottom of the boiler. I was wondering if Larry found a solution to his problem?

  9. #9
    In the trades Dana's Avatar
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    This is a serious problem- call the manufacturer or distributor, and get somebody out there to properly diagnose and fix it pronto! If the contractor can't or won't fix it, you really need to find one who will.

    Don't wait until the pops are big enough to blow the boiler off the wall. Inspecting the vent pipes for cracks would also be prudent with that kind of history too.

  10. #10
    Master Hot Water Mpls,MN BadgerBoilerMN's Avatar
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    Before buying a condensing boiler from anyone, ask them for a sample of their ACCA Manual 'J' heat loads. Sizing any boiler is the first step in every hydronic heating system. Sizing the radiation to the load of each room is the second step. Balancing the loads so that the properly sized boiler does not receive a call from a zone that is too small for the lowest output of the boiler comes next.

    When designing hydronic systems these are the steps we never skip.

    Once the proper boiler is chosen it must be installed by an experienced professional using a combustion analyser. The analyser will tell the technician if the boiler is firing with the correct fuel/air mix. It is the only way to determine this.

    Micro-explosions (actually known as delayed ignition) is not particularly dangerous in condensing boiler of this class but is certainly detrimental to the equipment and will effect components in negative ways. Like Dana, I am more concerned about micro-zones than micro-explosions as it relates to the long term reliability of a The Prestige boiler.

    When manufactured one of the first condensing boilers, we received a dozens of perfectly good gas valves every month. If a technician takes out a good part for another and doesn't fix the problem, he is known as a parts changer. Sometimes this is inevitable, but more often it is the lack of training easily overcome by a quick phone call to the factory.

    No, don't call direct, as the factory support hasn't time to train everyone in the country.

    Yes, do call the factory and ask for the local supplier whom can generally recommend a local boiler tech who has been to school.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member boulderbri's Avatar
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    Hi - I have a TT Prestige Solo 110 with the TT Phase 3 Indirect Fired Water Heater. I live in Granby, Colorado at around 8600 feet altitude. The night temps get down to around 0*.

    I've been trying to figure out why we aren't getting the same heat as before (a little chilly in the morning). By early day, things have caught up. Settings are all factory default except for the CH Target Temp is 170* instead of the 186* and the pressure is 12 PSI, which is recommended in the manual for residential.

    In the morning, when several zones are requesting heat, the measured supply temp never goes above 125*. I guess I expected it to be much higher since the CH Target Temp is 170*. Is this right or does it sound like there is a problem

    There are no error codes or lockout. The only issue I see is that the domestic water temp sensor from the side arm water heater shows -22 but if I turn the hot water on in the house and the TT heats the water heater, the domestic water temp sensor shows 240 (which the manual shows as a short).

    So, in short, things seem to work fine for the most part except in the morning, the house is at 65* when all the zones are set for 69*. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Brian

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member tray's Avatar
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    Seen this before, this noise is caused by an improper air to fuel mix.you will need screwdriver, co analyzer, and patience cause its in tight spot. Dont quote me on this but i believe number is around 9.8 but can be verified through triangle tube. And dont let them side track you with ignitor replacement, thats there solution for everything

  13. #13

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    Tray, are you responding to my post about the thud noise, or are you replying to Buffalobillpatrick's issue?

  14. #14
    Master Hot Water Mpls,MN BadgerBoilerMN's Avatar
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    There is simply no way to set or adjust combustion on any high efficiency condensing boiler without the use of a properly calibrated combustion analyzer in the hands of a skilled technician. Part of the cost of living remotely is finding professionals to do the things you cannot. No good can come from your efforts here. You are experiencing delayed ignition, but the implications of this one symptom can lead to many unhappy consequences. No one here or elsewhere can help you, even if the knew how.

    I know, I'm bad, but still the only one haunting this DIY wasteland that works on condensing boilers for a living, and most of them, poor to really dangerously installations. I wager that Mark is not the only qualified condensing boiler heating technician in Colorado. Any contractor with condensing boiler training and experience should be able to help. The local rep or distributor (especially the one that sold the unit) should be able to give you a referral.

  15. #15

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    I spoke too soon -- the new controller isn't igniting properly. That's because they sent us the an "uncorrected" controller (no green dot). A new one just arrived, and will be installed soon. I fear it will only correct some of the problems. I'll update the thread or make a new one since it kinda got hijacked (sorry BB).

    BTW, the tech bulletin for TT bad ignition is at: http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/pos...nt_8022011.pdf

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