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Thread: Cant take the effects of hard water in N. Phoenix, need help quick!

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Tonyc@alpine's Avatar
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    Default wter softener equipmet recomendations for phx az

    Hi everyone,
    I have been reading this forum for the last couple days about softener systems / problems / installation help.
    I'm looking for a recommendation for either where I can purchase and install myself, or a reputable
    Phoenix company to provide / install for me. I don't have any issues paying for knowledgeable honest
    company that only sells top quality equipment. I don't neccesarrily need top of the line, but if that's
    what it takes to get this taken care of sign me up....

    Thank you for any recommendations.

    TC
    Last edited by Tonyc@alpine; 11-25-2011 at 10:49 AM. Reason: typos

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Before sizing up a softener, a few pieces of info is need. What is the hardness of the water? How many people are in the home? How many bathrooms are there and do you have body sprayers?

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member Tonyc@alpine's Avatar
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    i have not yet gotten a water quality check done. But from what im told the hardness is pretty high in phoenix. We have 2 full baths with
    A master shower that has 2 heads but no body sprayers. Also, no bathtubs in either bathroom. I recently gutted and remodeled. Put in a pex plumbing system with a valved manifold for every run. The water heater and pex manifold are in a very small mechanical room on the exterior of the condo, but attached right outside a back bedroom door. None of the plumbing runs are more than 15-18 feet from manifold to
    sinks, toilets, washer & steam dryer, etc......

    Thanks for any info you may be able to pass on. I was also thinking of going with a tankless electric water heater as I have available circuits
    And have the manifold with direct feeds everywhere. It would free up space in mechanical closet as well.

    Thanks,

    Tonyc

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    If you are looking for an electrical mechanical softener, I would go with a Fleck 5600. It is very reliable. If you like the electronic models, I would go with the Clack or Canature units. I can supply any of the 3 at a very good price.

  5. #5
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Sounds like a 1.5 cubic or 48k at a min.. but the water test is the key.

    Number of people in the home?

    Could be that a twin softener better if the hardness is high and there are more than 4 people in the home.

    I have a supplier just outside of Phx..

    If one is handy then you most likely could do all it yourself.

  6. #6
    DIY Member rjh2o's Avatar
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    The problem in Phoenix is, there are several different reservoirs they draw water from at different times of the year. The water hardness will vary greatly from one reservoir to another. Consequently typical metered water softeners can not compensate for this hardness variation. The best option for this application is an "aqua sensor" type unit that reads the change in tds (total dissolved solids) and regenerates according to that. Culligan and one other manufacturer, I believe, are the only manufacturers to produce these type systems at this time. I did see the other manufacturer on line the other day but I don,t recall their name. So try a search on-line for sensor generated systems.
    RJ

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    I've always seen Culligan cut out the Aqua Sensor and turn the system into a timered unit when it breaks down which, IIRC, last only 2 years. So to me, it's not worth it.

  8. #8
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    I second the motion. the culligan unit seems like a good idea but it has mechanical problems and it's a whole lot of money.
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

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    DIY Member rjh2o's Avatar
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    If there is any iron in the water it will cause problems with the aqua sensor. It gets coated with iron and either gives a constant signal to regenerate or no signal at all. So with an aqua sensor (as with any treatment system) it is all about the application. As I said before there are other companies making sensor based units now. The water supplies being referenced do not have iron in them. So the aqua sensor is the perfect application here.
    RJ

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    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    There is one system that I have seen that has the probes on the side of the media tank... sticking out so that some thing can break them off ..

    If there is a sample port before the system to test the raw water hardness and a chart to set the gallons when the raw hardness changes would be better, while that can be a bit of a pain it leaves out a part that can go bad and make the rest of the system fall on its face.

  11. #11
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Or simply size and set up the softener for the highest hardness in the city water system and forget it.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member ogbadboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Or simply size and set up the softener for the highest hardness in the city water system and forget it.
    That works, but the problem with that is that you are losing out on efficiency. The only way to get efficiency with changing incoming water hardness like the Phoenix Valley has would be to always keep and eye on the city's hardness and adjust the settings every time it gets harder or softer.

    Culligan has recently changed the design of their Aqua Sensors and since doing so I have only seen a handful of issues with them. The bad thing about the newer design(I hear) is that it's not backwards compatible with the old green or blue circuit boards. Which means you would have to install the new Red board to be able to use it(not 100% sure on that though).

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